Holy cow! That's fantastic news! About time they announced this after teasing us with the V6 (which is also stellar).

And GM has Gen V around the corner and Chrysler has the 6.4L Hemi coming, which made 510 ft-lb of torque back in 2005 when they first showed it and is expected to have between 450-500 hp and is actually lighter then the 6.1L Hemi do to use of aluminum over iron. Just when Ford catches up, they fall right behind again. Another sour point is the new GT is rumored to weigh between 3,675-3,750 lbs, which is Camaro territory. Finally, this engine is rumored to have around 380 ft-lb of torque while the LS3 is getting 420 ft-lb and Challenger is at 420 ft-lb as well.

Well... I knew it wouldn't take Ford too long to catch up. I'm not sure if the GT can really compete against an SRT8 though with there being over a $10,000 price difference. However, the Challenger does offer some pretty cool tech stuff that the other two lack like that g-force meter thing...still don't think the starting price should be over 40k like it is. Camaro is the main competition and it should perform pretty well against it once the "gotta have a 2010 Camaro" hype dies down. Some food for thought though...I would be pissed as hell if I bought a 2010 Mustang.

"Some food for thought though...I would be pissed as hell if I bought a 2010 Mustang." - Blue Z34

Those idiots deserve what they bought. Just like any idiot who buys a car that's in its last year of a certain body style (eg. 2009 Mustang, 2007 Accord, 2009 Buick LaCrosse)- paying maximum price for a dated design that's going to take a bigger depreciation hit due to the all-new model or refresh (unless of course your getting HUGE discounts like MB did with the dated E-class recently).

I mean, how hard is it to "google" the next year model of a car you're interested in purchasing to see upcoming changes.

@Noya

The 2010 Mustang IS the new body style. They just switched up the engines for 2011 - which until a couple weeks ago, the new engines were merely a rumor. We all know how many rumors go around about different cars that never come true, so can you really blame someone for not postponing buying a new car based on a rumor?

Google, it's so easy even Noya can use it.

I think they are all catching up Nissans Nissan 370Z And Nissan 370Z Nismo with 333/350HP.

Mustang, Camaro and Challenger are all joke cars good for straight line only and nothing else and of course engine is going to look like crap after 60,000 oil all over :)

@Miki's second coment

That's not what was said adout them on Motor Trend.

@Avatar:

It won't matter if GM can't start actually making money. All their MPG and Most power won't mean sh*t if they can't stay afloat without TAX PAYER MONEY.

@Miki

why dont you look at what all the major magazines say about the mustang's amazing new ability to drive circles around Camaro and Challenger then you can say they are only good in straight lines....your a joke and you still have facts from the 90's in your head especially with the second comment you had about the oil all over th engine, get a clue!

@ avatar

Yeah and GM is still not making a profit and no one is buying Chrysler products.

Lol. Have you guys been under rocks or something? Loans will be repaid in full by July, at which time they will go public. New GM has basically no debt vs Ford with over 150 Billion which is more money then GM got by a long shot. GM plans for profit next year.

Of course GM has no debt. They laid over and declared bankruptcy. And got a loan that no financial institution on planet Earth would have endorsed. Thankfully that task was left to us taxpayers.

Ford secured cash the real way. Cutting internal costs, negotiation, and liquidation years before the shit really hit the fan. And unlike either of the rivals, Ford never stopped making the Mustang.

Then there's Chrysler....Sigh...I think we already saw in recent years that putting a Hemi in 1/2 your lineup does not guarantee sales. Neither will a bigger Hemi. Let's see what Fiat has up their sleeve to revive Mopar.

@Avatar

Except idiot politicians are forcing GM to make bad business decisions (like forcing them to use more expensive union trucking services, more expensive union mines, etc). That alone is going to severely hurt them, plus that fact that any US taxpayer with any semblance of self-respect will tell GM and Chrysler to go fuck themselves for stealing tax dollars to keep from going out of business after running the company into the ground. I've owned GM cars, as has everyone in my family - but just about everyone in my extended family (as have millions of others in the country) decided to never again buy a GM car after they stole tax dollars from hard working Americans.

Ford on the other hand cut costs, improved quality, and now not only has cars worth buying, but they are the one American car company to have made it on their own - which has given them a huge boost. Before this year, I'd never have seriously considered a Ford - now I will.

You can say cut costs till your blue in the face, 150+ billion in debt is not going away anytime soon. Interest alone is killing Ford. And Ford has a big problem GM and Chrysler don't have, their UAW contract. GM and Chrysler hold more power now do to certain clauses added when the government gave them money to keep UAW workers working. Ford didn't get the same deal. The biggest is the no strike language.

GM's costs are WAY down. Interest and putting retirement responsibilities are two huge money savers. They are now actually paying what debts they have now early, Germany, 1.2 billion. Canada, 1.4 billion. Then have other one time loses, like 2.8 billion to keep Delphi a float. Also note GM took in 3.3 billion in cash in the third quarter, which was more then it spent. If it didn't have a lot of those one time payments, they would have posted a profit.

And people on here like to complain and say they won't buy anything from GM/GM again, in the third quarter, GM's global market share shot up 3 points over the first quarter. Share in North America was at 19.5% for the third quarter YTD. It is now some where around 19.7% for the year, November was 20.1%. So that means people are buying GM vehicles and more and more are doing so, you simply aren't one of them.

Still has less power than the Camaro.......and still has live axle!!!!!

@Avatar

They are not "paying their debts" off, they are paying their GOVERNMENT debts off. They still have all their private debt. Some people may buy GM vehicles, but many formerly loyal customers are through with them. Also, you can't judge based on one year - especially not a year where the government manipulated the market with cash for clunkers. Sure, people probably would buy a stripped down $13k Chevy Aveo when they're getting $4,500 off from the government and are scared to death that they'll lose their job. It's long term (such as over the next 5-10 years) that will show how things play out. It's kind of like gambling - long term, you ARE going to lose, but temporarily you can be ahead. I'm not saying for SURE that GM will lose, but they've pissed off enough people that chances are they will.

@Miki
Very much liking that first comment!

Unfortunately for my Z however we Americans catch on fast and now I'm almost certain that this new Mustang could take me in a drag stock to stock...not by much though. And, I wouldn't say they're only good in straight lines, I mean they do still look good right? But, the 2010 GT model was a joke, 315hp and 325lb-ft from a 4.6 liter V8...very sad. Now the Mustang's back in the competition again and it's pissing me off haha. Thank goodness I'm not stock.

And what other 'debts' do you think GM has currently? VEBA and that's about it. GM burnt through 14.4 billion in the second quarter and was down to 1.2 billion for the third. I would call that dramatic reduction in expenses. 4.9 billion from cars sales in the third quarter, which is up 21% over the same period last year despite car sales being down 36.4%. Let's put that in simple terms, they made more with less. And when GM went into bankruptcy, they had about 98 billion in debt. Once again, Ford sitting with 150+ billion.

As for what people are buying, it is certainly not Aevo's:

Last Month Results
Aevo -27.6
Cobalt -12.1
Corvette -5.3
Impala +4.7
Malibu +27.6
Colorado -42.6
Equinox +273
HHR +38
Suburban +20.5
Tahoe +57.3
Transverse +140.3
Chevy Total +4.5

LaCrosse +63
Lucerne -30.7
Enclave +33.6
Buick Total +14.8

CTS -6.8
DTS +9.4
STS -55.7
XLR -8.3
Escalade -13.5
Escalade ESV -32.6
Escalade EXT -57.1
SRX +207.8
Caddy Total +10.3

Acadia +46.9
Canyon -27.9
Sierra -20.3
Yukon +0.1
Yukon XL -10.7
GMC Total +5.4

GM Core Total +5.6

To summarize, it is their new stuff and stuff they have done well, like SUV's, that is selling. And a bunch of new stuff comes out next year, along with the following. Fleet sales are also down about 50% but car sales are actually up. That's where that magically more from less number comes from. You know who is doing more and more fleet? Ford and Toyota are the big two.

Regal, Cruze, Spark, Aevo, Orlando, Camaro Convertible, Malibu, Volt, CTS Coupe, XTS, ATS, Astra, Arcida Denali, two mode and BAS+, trucks and SUVs are rumored to be in there if not later, and those are just the ones I can think of right now. No one else in the industry is releasing nearly the same amount. They also released 5 new vehicles this year and even have stuff projected after the next two years, like the CTS, Converj, and C7. That is pretty long term. Volt II is already being worked on along with a bunch of other projects. Press can be negative all they want. They have to be because its what sells and they are a business just like any other.

@Avatar

Wow that's alot of new models. Hopefully they'll start off light on the production to see what will and will not sell.

Well, they have trimmed production back on everything. Their day-supply numbers are way down and they are actual having to up production in Q1 2010 do to lack of supply for some models, like the LaCrosse and Equinox for example. Dealer inventory has basically been cut in half from the same period as last year. Its not hard to look up these numbers, GM has them all on their corporate website. Again, press only spreads doom and gloom, but it only takes 5 minutes to look at some figures.

@Avatar

I notice your numbers are only for last month -- however, for the year their market share is still way down. GM has lost market share in the US every year starting in 2000. In the last two years, their losses have been massive.

In 1999, GM sold 5,017,150 vehicles. Last year they sold 2,980,688. So far this year (as of the end of November), they've sold 1,875,981. This is why GM went bankrupt - it wasn't due to the economy, it was due to the fact that GM had been bleeding money all decade.

So yes, last month their sales may have gone up a small amount. However, they're still losing sales overall and THAT is what matters. One good month won't carry a company.

But I suppose you'll try to say those sales figures are "the press" lying and "spreading doom and gloom".

@Tote
"One good month wont carry a company."

Hey, it's a start right? So stop spreading doom and gloom already.

@426Hemi

Their sales are STILL down 32% for the year, and that's WITH that +5% last month factored in. Last year their sales were down 22% from the previous year.

This isn't an "anti-American" rant, it's an "anti-bad businesses" rant. That's why I praise for for making $1 billion profit this year and having lots of quality cars WITHOUT stealing tax dollars

@ Avatar

You keep looking at theit short term rebound. Of course them selling off brands and cutting divisions will help for the short term, but thye still have a ways to go before seeing a full turn around. Ford on the other hand is already 2 steps ahead of GM and 3 steps ahead of Chrysler at this point. While ford is showing steady profitability GM and Chrysler have yet to show for that.

*praise FORD for, not "for for"

just fixing that typo in my last post

Um, Tote, "...GM's global market share shot up 3 points over the first quarter. Share in North America was at 19.5% for the third quarter YTD. It is now some where around 19.7% for the year, November was 20.1%."

Their share is on the rise, not only in North America but globally as well. Most were saying their share would fall to 15% or less in America, not the case. There is your negative press BS. It also hasn't been just one good month, GM has been increasing month over month since July.

World wide sales are down. So you are surprised that GM's sales are down when the rest of the industry is down as well? GM's market share has been on the drop for years, since the 60s technically when it peaked. The main point I was making above is instead of them hoping for more sales like old GM would, they are instead making more with less. 21% increase in cash, 36.4% decrease in sales for third quarter.

Ford is looking for profitability in 2011, GM next year. I fail to see how GM is behind Ford at that point. Less debt, more cash on hand, higher sales numbers, and profitability first. The difference between what happen to Ford and what happen to GM is Ford tapped all the credit they had before it dried up. What is rather sad is apparently the company, Ford's, as a whole, from assembly plants to parts warehouses, was used as a lean to get that money.

Steal, GM doesn't count Hummer, Saab, Pontiac, or Saturn as part of it anymore. But if you want me to add those numbers to the mix, GM is down 2.2% in November. Non-core was down 47.9%. YTD, GM core is down 29.1%, non-core -46.2%, and combined -32%, which means the YTD lose is decreasing Tote. GM core had 94% of the sales, up from 86% last November over non-core. YTD, GM core has 1.6 million, non-core has 250,000. With numbers like those, you can't say getting rid of the non-core brands is actually hurting them in the long term.

@Avatar

"Ford is looking for profitability in 2011, GM next year."

No, Ford WAS looking for it, but then things went better than planned and they posted a $1 billion profit this year. Don't believe me? Read through the earnings reports from a couple months ago, it was all over the financial news. GM not only is still losing money, but they still have something like $16 billion in debt. Ford can actually start paying off their debt because they have a surplus.

It doesn't matter what their market share is when they are STILL LOSING SALES year over year. Since fewer people are buying cars right now due to the recession, it doesn't take much for "company X" to have their market share go up, while still having falling sales. It's simple economics (which I do have a degree in).

I don't understand why you want to deny the facts and worship Government Motors. The numbers and public opinion of GM just don't back up your claims, sorry to break it to you.

I am going to make this simple:

GM Third Quarter Results:
Sales Down 36.4%
Cash Intake +21%
Loss down 94% Quarter over Quarter

The above means the ability to make more with less and cut costs. Your cash intake doesn't magically increase in a company that makes cars unless they are making money on, you guessed it, cars.

Just because Ford posted a profit in one out of 4 quarters doesn't mean they are profitable. After posting that, they actually upped their profitability forecast to 2011.

Before you get doom and gloom over fourth quarter as well, GM already stated they will post a loss do to repayment of loans and one time losses like Delphi.

Oh, and thanks for proving my point. 16-1.2-1.4-6.7= 6.7 billion in other debts. 43.6 billion in cash, 16 billion in escrow. Loans that aren't suppose to get paid for till 2014 getting paid off. Who was it that had the better balance sheet again?

And please, point out where I haven't given a fact or statement that hasn't been issued by GM.

@Avatar

Good god, you just don't understand how it works, do you? All you look at is the third quarter results. There are FOUR QUARTERS in a year. If you have massive losses in three of those four quarters (which they did), then not only is it easy for one quarter to be better than the last (it's doing bad in Q3 as opposed to horrible in Q2), but it also means that you're STILL LOSING FOR THE YEAR.

Their sales are STILL down 32% for the year, meaning that even though Q3 was better than Q2, but Q2 was so abysmal that it wasn't hard to do. Q3 was still a bad quarter for GM, it just wasn't as bad as the quarter before. No matter how you cut it, GM is still doing horribly.

Wow, you are clearly don't or simply can't read. First you say the government is making GM do things contract wise, which is false followed by "...any US taxpayer with any semblance of self-respect will tell GM and Chrysler to go fuck themselves...". Then you state Ford is doing so much better.

I gave you Ford's balance sheet plus the fact UAW is ticked at them. Then I prove number wise people, more then any other company in the US, are still buying GM and its growing. I also state GM is paying off their debts.

So you rebuttal that GM isn't paying off their debts, simply repaying "GOVERNMENT debts off". Later, you state GM has 16 billion in debt, which means more then half its debt is government debt. Why exactly wouldn't a company pay off their debt, more specifically the largest portion of it? Then you state, "stripped down $13k Chevy Aveo". And finally, complain about long term and saying its a gamble.

So I give you numbers as to what people are buying from GM, and give you how much they are releasing in the coming years, which I stated before that all their new stuff is doing well.

So then you try and say I only gave November numbers and GM only had a good month, despite me giving YTD numbers a few posts before. You then complain that GM's numbers have been in decline, despite the fact the whole industry is in decline which I point out.

Then you go on to say, "No, Ford WAS looking for it, but then things went better than planned and they posted a $1 billion profit this year." "You state yourself last post one good quarter isn't enough and I also stated that one quarter profit is not profitability, so you basically re-state what I have said already. I used the third quarter to show that GM is and can now make more with less sales, that's it. No where did I state they are free and clear, simply that they are in a better position then Ford.

Ford can actually start paying off their debt because they have a surplus." Ford also doesn't have cash GM has, so GM can afford to pay debts. Ford has to be careful, because no one is lending out money right now and the whole company already has a lean against it, so they can't mortgage the company anymore. That means they really can't start paying debts until they are sure they can turn profit year over year. GM with the cash they have on hand can safely pay off their debts in full tomorrow and still have cash. They are being smart however and holding onto their cash in case the industry crashes again/farther so they can survive through quarter after quarter of losses, just like Ford.

You have only really stated that GM's sales are down and that's it. I used the third quarter results to show that it isn't hurting GM no where near as much as last year. Once again, sales down, cash made up. Here is a nice quote for you, "Vehicle sales in the United States sank 36.7 percent in November". So GM is well ahead of the curve at 2.2% loss for November. So not only has GM been having bad quarters, months, and the past year, so has everyone else. The difference is GM is gaining traction is a crashing/ed market, gaining share, has a great cash position, virtually no debt as well as paying it off, and making more cash WITH LESS SALES, all of which are facts. What do you think happens when the market picks back up again?

Like I said last post, you just don't get it. You're showing only that November was slightly better than October. They're still doing horrible.

Since you refuse to understand what you're talking about, you're not worth continuing this discussion with. Have fun worshiping the false idol that is GM, come back when you've learned a tiny bit about how businesses work.

Yup, can't read.

Preliminary Non-GAAP Managerial Results
“Old GM”
July 1-July 9, 2009
GM
July 10-Sept. 30, 2009
($mils)
Net revenue $1,637 $26,352
Earnings before interest and taxes
(before special items) $(627) $(261)
Net interest $(209) $(250)
Special items $79,6722 $(505)
Earnings before taxes $78,836 $(1,016)
Taxes $522 $(135)
Total managerial income/(loss) $79,358 $(1,151)

I must have made that up. Oh wait, I didn't. It came straight off GM's website.

November quick facts:

* Combined retail sales of Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC represented 94 percent of GM retail sales, up from 86 percent in November 2008
* Total GM retail sales increased 1 percent when compared with the prior year
* Retail sales for Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC increased 10 percent for the month compared with November 2008
* Retail sales of our six launch vehicles comprised 22 percent of total GM retail sales, more than one out of five retail sales, and volume was 6 percent higher than last month
* Retail sales of Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet and GMC Crossover launch vehicles were up 140 percent vs. a year ago compared with the vehicles they replace
* Combined retail sales of crossovers and cars were 60 percent of GM retail sales for the month, compared with 46 percent in November 2008 – the eighth month at this level in 2009
* Total sales for GM full-size pickup trucks were down 24 percent for the month, compared to November 2008
* Fleet sales declined 9 percent vs. November 2008

I must have made that up too. Nope, GM's website again.

A strong performance by GM’s four core brands – Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac – resulted in GM U.S. October sales of 177,603 vehicles, up 4 percent from last October, the company’s first year-over-year gain since January 2008. Total sales increased 13 percent when compared with September. The four brands accounted for about 95 percent of GM’s retail sales, an increase of 10 percentage points compared to the prior year.
Moreover, GM’s market share has improved for the third straight month. Market share is estimated at 21 percent.
“We’re very pleased with consumer acceptance to our newest cars, crossovers and trucks,” said Susan Docherty, GM vice president, U.S. Sales. “While we have more work to do, we are making progress and will continue our focus on delivering vehicles and a sales and service experience that brings consumers to Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac – and keeps them coming back.”
GM is making measurable progress as seen by:
• Total GM sales increased 4 percent compared with October, 2008;
• Retail sales were up 15 percent for the same period;
• Year-over-year total sales increase is the first since January, 2008;
• Chevrolet, Buick, GMC and Cadillac retail sales represented 95 percent of October retail sales vs. 85 percent in October, 2008;
• Combined Buick/GMC retail sales were up 33 percent compared with last year, driving Buick-Pontiac-GMC retail sales up 12 percent.

God, I seem to be 'making up' and 'drinking kool-aid' a lot. Where do these magically numbers come from.

dmunds.com has preliminarily forecasted General Motors (GM) retail market share for October will rise to 22.4 percent from the third-quarter retail average of 19.1 percent.
Edmunds.com also estimates the Seasonally Adjusted Annual Rate (SAAR) of sales for October to date is in the low 10 million rate.
“GM is benefiting this month from its recent product launches in key volume segments, an abundance of media coverage, including positive reviews of its new models, and a surge in ad spending on its new campaign,” observed Jeremy Anwyl, CEO of Edmunds.com.
Here is additional consideration data, which correlates to unique page views of a specific vehicle, on GM’s recent product launches:
•    Six weeks into the launch of the Cadillac CTS Wagon: Consideration on the Vehicle (by segment) is up 7 percent
•    Nine weeks into the launch of the Buick LaCrosse: Consideration of the Vehicle (by segment) is up nearly 42 percent
•    14 weeks into the launch of the Chevrolet Equinox: Consideration of the Vehicle (by segment) is up nearly 17 percent
•    Five weeks into the launch of the GMC Terrain: Consideration of the Vehicle (by segment) is up nearly 11 percent
For more information, please visit Edmunds’ AutoObserver.com story “GM Regaining Lost Market Share in October, Edmunds.com Reports”

Oh look, market share increase OVER THE YEAR.

General Motors continued to rebuild sales momentum in August as dealers in the United States delivered 246,479 vehicles, far and away the company’s highest total and retail sales performance of 2009.
The August total, when compared with a very strong sales performance in August 2008 and lower fleet sales this year, was down 20 percent. Retail sales were down 17 percent while fleet sales declined 29 percent.
However, when comparing GM’s strong August total sales with July, volume was up more than 57,000 vehicles, or 30 percent month-over-month. The hugely successful Federal “Cash for Clunkers” program contributed to the increase, and GM has announced it will ramp up production to restock already tight dealer inventories.
“The Cash for Clunkers program was certainly a success, but our momentum continues to build on the strength of our new cars and crossovers such as the Chevrolet Malibu, Equinox and Camaro. Now we have the Buick Lacrosse, Cadillac SRX and GMC Terrain hitting the market,” said Mark LaNeve, vice president, U.S. sales. “We believe the program was a strong shot in the arm for the economy and that our four core brands – Chevrolet, GMC, Buick and Cadillac – are well positioned with new products to take advantage of the ongoing recovery in the market. Our new vehicles are contributing to our stable share performance for the past five months – running in the 20 percent range.”
Compared with a strong performance in August 2008, driven by the “Employee Discount for Everyone” promotion that resulted in the highest monthly sales total last year, GM’s overall sales declined 62,338 vehicles, or 20 percent. Retail sales of 187,410 vehicles were down 17 percent, while fleet sales of 59,069 vehicles were off 29 percent. GM total car sales of 118,744 were down 5 percent compared with a year ago and truck sales of 127,735 were down 31 percent.

I thought August was their best month do to C4C? Guess not.

GM dealers in the U.S. delivered 189,443 total vehicles in July, the fifth consecutive month-over-month retail sales increase. The July total, when compared with a strong July last year and lower fleet sales this year, was down 19 percent compared with a year ago. Retail sales were down nine percent while fleet sales declined 47 percent. However, when comparing GM’s July retail sales with June, volume was up nearly 12,000 vehicles. Large pickup retail sales began to recover in July with a 16 percent increase compared with June, driving total GM truck retail sales improvements of 12 percent when compared with the prior month.

“Our performance is being driven by the outstanding products in our core Chevrolet, GMC, Cadillac and Buick brands. While still challenging, the market is firming and GM sales are still tracking ahead of what we projected in our reinvention plan,” said Mark LaNeve, vice president, U.S. sales. “In July we are projecting our retail market share to exceed our year-ago performance. From great new products, like our Cadillac SRX and CTS Sport Wagon, Chevrolet Camaro and Equinox, to attractive financing and new leasing opportunities and to the Cash-for-Clunkers program that helps reduce the cost to buy a new vehicle – customers have unprecedented opportunities to get into a new GM car or truck. We anticipate an additional sales lift in August if Congress approves more funding for the wildly-popular Cash-For-Clunkers economic recovery program.”

Compared with last July, GM overall sales declined 45,741 vehicles driven largely by a planned reduction in fleet sales of 30,423 vehicles (down 47 percent). This drop in fleet sales was a direct result of a strategic decision to tightly control production and inventories that better enable GM dealers to reduce their stock of vehicles to align with market demand. Retail sales of 155,569 vehicles were down nine percent. GM total truck sales in July were down 18 percent, and car sales of 83,736 were off 21 percent compared with a year ago. However, when compared with a year ago, GM total crossover sales of 39,937 were up six percent, driven by the strong performance of Chevrolet Traverse which contributed more than 6,600 sales.

When compared with June’s retail performance, there were several product highlights in GM’s core brands to note:
• Chevrolet Aveo, Cobalt, Impala and Malibu contributed to a Chevrolet car retail increase of eight percent. Chevrolet truck sales increased 27 percent, led by increases by Silverado, Suburban, Avalanche, Colorado, HHR and Equinox.
• GMC sales increased eight percent, led by Sierra, Canyon and Yukon XL.
• Cadillac Escalade ESV sales increased 32 percent while Escalade sales increased three percent.

Wasn't GM in bankruptcy during July? Oh, wait, look at that, "...the fifth consecutive month-over-month retail sales increase." That means an increase going back to February, no? I thought I was only looking at November?

Learn to read please.

5 bucks says the Ford V8 will take out the Camaro SS!

Non-GAAP results, your post is WAY too long to read it all, but fictional results cooked up by GM's management is most likely bias in their favor. May be close, but odds are GAAP results (which serve to make financials comparable) will be worse....because if they were better they would have used those.

I'm not getting into your debate, but you should never use such information in a financial analysis.

Seeing as they aren't public, they didn't have to release any numbers at all, be it non-GAAP or GAAP. Since they are the only numbers they did release, those are what we have to go by.

You are correct about the GAAP however, but realize that goes both ways. The numbers could be worse or better. Like how GM said the Camaro 3.6L would get 27 highway and ended up with 29 highway EPA. GM has a tendency to under estimate numbers for the worst rather then over for the better. They do, like everyone else, sometimes over estimate things.