"Ford is also statistically tied with Toyota at the top of the industry when it comes to initial vehicle quality, according to the 2009 U.S. Global Quality Research System (GQRS) survey conducted quarterly for Ford by RDA Group of Bloomfield Hills, Mich."

CONDUCTED QUARTERLY FOR OUR CLIENT, FORD.

So with the economic down turn i guess RDA is kissing some arss to keep ford (one of there CLIENTS) from kicking them to the curb. I am pretty sure this doesn't prove anything on quility. just like saying oh baby you don't look fat in that dress, just to get some pootang at the end of the night.

Well, hooray for Ford, and I mean that with no sarcasm.
As a Honda and Toyota owner I look forward to more options when its time for a new car.
I am also rooting for Ford because they are the only domestic that is still able to stand on their own even if it is a little shaky.

All that being said, I still have my doubts about long term quality. Granted, our cars are and 01 and 02, and maybe Honda and Toyota quality have slipped since then?

All I know is if I sit in a Ford, Chevy, or Chrysler from the same era with comparable miles, it's not even close.
They are shaky, rattletraps with all sorts of things not working with the electronics and other crap.
Besides worn interior carpet and scratches and dings, our Honda and Toyota aren't much different from when they were new.

"Initial Quality" ? What's the point? 99.99% of all brand new cars are defect free at these first 3 months anyway. It has nothing to do with long term quality.

"Customer Satisfaction" ? It's probably because they got a V8 or a more powerful engine for less $$ vs. Honda and Toyotas. It has nothing to do with quality of built.

These so called survey are pretty useless because of fanbase and bias towards other brands.

It's true that American cars are getting better in design and quality, but I'm still not confident enough to invest big time $$ on them. I still think the interiors are still ugly and very cheap looking.

Well, since these reports of initial quality have been going on for ages, something has changed.

Wether you like it or not, Honda may have slumped in initial quality, they dodn't make this stuff up. I an hearing more and more about non-typical issues with new Hondas. Water leaks is one of them.

Initial quality and production line standards have EVERYTHING to do with the long term reliablility of a car. If a car isn't engineered properly, it will have issues right off the bat and down the line. One simple automated process that isn't programmed properly, or human error on the assembly line will affect that vehicle when it hits the street.

I've diagnosed everything from water leaks to poor electical grounds on new vehicles due to the inablity of dealerships to hire talent that can diagnose these problems on their own. You'd be surprised at the number of techs hired today that cannot deal with electicall issues or interface with the technology installed in cars today. And these are all defects from the manufacturing process. Every automaker does it, but it's the smart automaker that deals with this feedback first that wins the race.

That also has everything to do with initial quality issues. Wether or not your dealership can nail down what fails or slips by the pre-delivery inspection to the buyer. You'd be amazed at the number of cars that get delivered with issues. Most techs at dealers hate PDI's because the flat-rate on them don't pay what non-warranty does. So they rush through them and miss critical flaws at times.

As far as big time $$ are concerned, i can only guess you are buying entire fleets of vehicles or dealerships since 25 to 30K is standard fare for a car these days.

Ford rules, get used to it. The only reason Ford (or Chevy for that matter) doesn't sell more cars that Toyota is because foreign car companies aren't allowed in Japan (2nd largest market for autos) due to protectionist trade laws.

The new Fusion is better looking, built better, and has a much nicer interior than anything from both Honda or Toyota, but chances are most sheep have never bothered to look and realize you can get as good or better a car for thousands less.

chmilz:

Ford rules, get used to it. The only reason Ford (or Chevy for that matter) doesn't sell more cars that Toyota is because foreign car companies aren't allowed in Japan (2nd largest market for autos) due to protectionist trade laws.

Now that argument has some merit!
NOT!!!
Especially that first line...Ford rules...gimme a break...Chevy rules...another break please...Toyota rocks...when do the breaks quit?

Can anybody define 'Initial Quality' for me with data to back it up?
The 1st day of ownership? 1st month? 1st year?

Personally, my idea of 'Initial Quality' might be a full year, with a decent amount of mileage on a vehicle. Not sunday only drives to church, or 100,000 highway only miles, but a solid mix of a bit of everything.
Am I wrong here?

I think the key phrase here is "Ford has released a new study today"...

Ever since Toyota and Honda decided to build their cars in the USA, their quality has gone down a bit. Is it coincidence? Is this also the reason why Lexus and Infinity are still build in Japan to maintain quality?

"Ford Rules" --- I hope so for the sakes of the white and hispanic people here in my area since they're the only one who's buying them.

Bring the European Ford's to NA and then we'll talk. Until they land here in full force, I'm not touching a Ford car (except maybe the Focus).

Genko: While I do agree there has been some degradation in quality, I think to a certain extent it's design and a competitive market rather than build (assembly). Build quality has been quite good over all - for example in Toyota's case, the Lexus RX350 is one of the few Lexus' built outside of Japan (Ontario in Canada). I had an opportunity to tour the plant earlier this year - really a sight to see!

I know Toyota and Honda fans don't want to hear this but, it's just not this study that claims this. JD Powers ranked Mercury for example the second best in quality behind Lexus last year. Ford has really stepped it up to heavily compete against Honga and Toyota in recent years for quality and it looks like they are doing just that.

Wow. Now I really look like a complete dickhead.

Dream on Ford :)

In a new report released by the Peanut Grower's Association of America, peanut butter is shown to cure cancer in 100% of cases.

Give me a break. As long as the UAW is building these cars, there will be no quality awards.

This just in - in an independent study financed by the tobacco industry, conclusive data suggests that there is no link between smoking and cancer.

My Ford Expedition hits its 10 year anniversary soon; got my fingers crossed that it will make it that far, it's getting dicey!

I have to agree with others at this site. Quality for the first 3 months? This survey sounds like a trumped up study to benefit Ford. I owned Fords exclusively for over 30 years. I was always bringing the vehicles back to the dealer for a number of fixes all of the time. The last straw was a door molding on a 2002 Explorer. The dealer just couldn't get it right and I was so sick and tired of the run around I took the truck to a body shop while it was still under warranty. The body shop fixed the molding the first time without issue. After that I swore to never buy a Ford again. Now we have one Scion, a Honda and an Acura. All three cars have never been to the dealer for any fix and are a pleasure to own. This is the very reason people are moving away from the big three. I'd love to own another Ford, but have no confidence in them or their customer service any more.

This headline is about 17 days late!

Most of you won't get my point. Nuf said.

@ John C:

I have an 02 Explorer myself at 90,XXX miles and molding on the interior of the talgate is "flemsy" to say the least.

Other then that this vehicles been flawless. No major repairs. Everythings original except for tires and the battery. No problems. I know I can rely on it daily.

I have had great success on my two Fords [F-150, Explorer], but others havent. Everybody usually has 1 bad experience with 1 certain model from 1 car company, and because of that, they never return to them.

Example: My younger sister had a 2006 Honda Civic for about a year before getting a RAV-4.

The Civics problems...
- motor to the power window on the drivers door went out
- after the new motor was put in and after a weeks time the wondow was rolled down at a drive thru Wendys, and on its way up, it got stuck half way... so back to the dealer...
- it went thru 2 batteries...
- the engine light came on...
- the rear window defroster didnt work...
- the airbag light came on...

A bunch of little b.s basically sent her away from Honda "for good" as she says, but im sure not every Civic is like this, nor is every Honda.

Every company has cars that struggle. For instance, don't buy a Ford Contour, don't buy a H2 [build quality is TERRIBLE], dont buy a Sebring, 01 Civics have TERRIBLE trannys... I can go on. Don't judge an entire make [Ford, Honda, Dode, etc.] becasue of one certain cars problems.

My Aunt has a Ford Expedition 5.4 with a little over 350,000. Runs fine. My friend in college had a Honda DelSlow with like 280,000. No issues. My old F-150 had 210,000. Only a fuel pump. My brothers friends dads Suburban had 150,000 miles and was in the shop CONSTANTLY. My cuzins Saturn has around 250,000. No issues.

Sometimes your just delt a bad card. GM fans stick with GM. Ford ppl stick with Ford. Jap car lovers refuse domestics. Mopar guys eat, sleep, breath and live by Mopar. Range Rover BLOWS according to JD Powers, but those things fans are lovers to their Range Rovers and Discoverys and whatever else.

Just have an open mind

Bradford, I just listed the one experience that was the last straw that broke the camel's back. We had a 1986 and 1997 Taurus. Both topped out with less than 60,000 miles. The '86 needed transmission work and the '97 actually went through THREE transmissions! Just about every Ford I had experienced some transmission or other major issue. I stuck with the brand even though we had issues because I liked Fords. The price and product was attractive to me. I just can't accept the problems any more and moved to Honda/Toyota products. The quality is better, in my opinion, and the dealer service is far better.

@Brad

I concur with all of it.

Knowing what I know now, I probably wouldn't have had a 96 Cavalier as my first car... It did make it to a 113k miles and survive being totaled, but it did succumb to a blown head gasket. Where as my friends 96 Neon is still going (I think it's like the Dodge from Married with Children...) with over 200k on it. The guy at the dealer ship told him, you know I'm not sure I've seen one with over 200k...you're living on borrowed time.

Yeah I think everyone at some point gets a car that's going to be a lemon and it sucks. Kind of like when you go to Amazon or Edmunds to check out reviews for things. There are always going to be whiners and complainers, and they are always going to skew the curve. I rarely post "positive" reviews if the product meets my expectations.

As I've gotten older I look for signs that the manufactures are confident that their products will last. My 04 Corolla has the same power train as 3 (or 4) other vehicles. That looks positive to me. Sometimes that's not the case (say GM's 3800 series from a couple of posts ago)... But just cause it "might" burst into flames doesn't mean it won't go 200k miles either.

I think it's funny that people compare a 23, 12 then 7 year old car to today's models then project (wrongly) that everything they make is still crap.. lol. Lately I have owned (and still do) Fords with excellent experiences. If you compare any 20 yo asian car to ANYTHING american today, I could say that all asian cars are garbage too.

Have you rode in a 2009 Toyota Avalon? I just did a couple days ago, wow, what a piece of plastic crap - cheaply made. I guess by the logic from the bashers on this site, all Toyota's must be garbage....

@rawanduntamed:

You've apparently missed the entire point in your haste to be biased. People are saying that they only migrated to imports after horrible experiences with American cars. They're now fully satisfied with their import cars and just don't see the need to gamble on another American car. Point being, a satisfied customer is a repeat customer.

By the way, I frequently drive various recent model American cars belonging to my relatives and friends and also on business travel. In my opinion, they still have a lot of catching up to do. Just one opinion, but one that's backed up by an awful lot of owner surveys.

I'll take the Honda thank you.

@ed:
True, past experiences can definitely influence perceptions and biases. This is why I would never buy a small pickup, from anyone, after experiencing a near death accident in a toyota roll over when it literally crumbled and flew apart..

@ Brian

"As I've gotten older I look for signs that the manufactures are confident that their products will last. My 04 Corolla has the same power train as 3 (or 4) other vehicles. That looks positive to me."

Hmm... ya know I never really thought about that.. Its a pretty good way to think about it. I mean, if an engine is 'ehh', then why would it be on multiple models ya know? Also, I guess check and see how long that certain engine has been out. If its been there for a while, there is a reason. I know Toyotas 4.7 is nearly bulletproof, but they are replacing it with a 4.6 which is suppost to get 30 more horsepower and 2 better highway mpg. I wonder if this engine will be another great sucess...

Also, I myself have NEVER heard of a Dodge/Plymouth Neon with 200K. Im sure tho if the guy took care of it, that car, as probably ANY out there could last that long to.

Some of the Toyota and Honda defenders here may not have gone to the dealerships lately and checked out the cars on the lot. Very disappointing.

I test drove a Honda Accord coupe, and not only was I unimpressed with the quality of the interior materials, but I was bothered by a rattle coming from the dash. The Camry had very cheap and plasticky door panels.

The Altima felt like it had much better quality materials.

Face it friends, Toyota and Honda are not what they used to be 5 years ago. For that matter neither is Ford.

I have driven many different cars lately for work (and friends cars), whether it is American or Japanese. I seem to like the Japanese cars better with exception to Ford. I drove a Chevy Impala ('08 I think). What a POS. My 04 Mazda6 has some rattles here and there, but I can deal with it because the car is mechanically very sound. (Plus, I love the looks of it) I think there are certain cars from certain manufactures that are good, and some are bad. If you look at the whole picture over the past 10-20 years, imports have had the better product I think. Ford is MUCH better and didnt really need this survey to convey that. Chevy and Chrysler still have a long ways to go, if they survive long enough.

For me, the irony of all of this is...I'd love to buy American cars but I buy Japanese because I'm a car abuser and I can't hack having to pay expensive repair bills all the time.

I'd love to be able to buy an American car and know that I was getting one of the most reliable cars on the road. Because, for me, reliability is more important than performance or looks (to me, reliability and cost go hand-in-hand).

It hurts me to know that I have to turn to a foreign product to get what I want in an automobile. Truly.

At one time I had a 1986 Ford tempo that pretty much ruined Ford for me for life, the car was that big a POS. But being objective here, I got the car as the fourth or fifth owner, and it already had 160,000 on the odometer when I got it. I have no idea how it was maintained, if at all when I received it. So while it's totally unfair of me to say the Ford sucked, this is how most people make these assumptions. I sank at least $4k into repairs on the car over the 2 years I owned it. Since I got the car for $1k, it seemed like a horrible car.

If I look at my '68 Ferrari 365 with the same attitude I treated that Ford tempo with, the Ferrari is an even bigger POS since I bought it for $6,500 (classic sports cars were dirt cheap in the 80's) and have put close to $30k into it.

Cars break, and it's not going to change anytime soon. While never visiting a dealership for warranty repairs is nice, I care more about how quickly and effectively they deal with the problems that do happen, and do I ever have to go back to have the same thing fixed twice.

At one time I had a 1986 Ford tempo that pretty much ruined Ford for me for life, the car was that big a POS. But being objective here, I got the car as the fourth or fifth owner, and it already had 160,000 on the odometer when I got it. I have no idea how it was maintained, if at all when I received it. So while it's totally unfair of me to say the Ford sucked, this is how most people make these assumptions. I sank at least $4k into repairs on the car over the 2 years I owned it. Since I got the car for $1k, it seemed like a horrible car.

If I look at my '68 Ferrari 365 with the same attitude I treated that Ford tempo with, the Ferrari is an even bigger POS since I bought it for $6,500 (classic sports cars were dirt cheap in the 80's) and have put close to $30k into it.

Cars break, and it's not going to change anytime soon. While never visiting a dealership for warranty repairs is nice, I care more about how quickly and effectively they deal with the problems that do happen, and do I ever have to go back to have the same thing fixed twice.

At one time I had a 1986 Ford tempo that pretty much ruined Ford for me for life, the car was that big a POS. But being objective here, I got the car as the fourth or fifth owner, and it already had 160,000 on the odometer when I got it. I have no idea how it was maintained, if at all when I received it. So while it's totally unfair of me to say the Ford sucked, this is how most people make these assumptions. I sank at least $4k into repairs on the car over the 2 years I owned it. Since I got the car for $1k, it seemed like a horrible car.

If I look at my '68 Ferrari 365 with the same attitude I treated that Ford tempo with, the Ferrari is an even bigger POS since I bought it for $6,500 (classic sports cars were dirt cheap in the 80's) and have put close to $30k into it.

Cars break, and it's not going to change anytime soon. While never visiting a dealership for warranty repairs is nice, I care more about how quickly and effectively they deal with the problems that do happen, and do I ever have to go back to have the same thing fixed twice.

Wow, sorry about the triple post... stupid fingers.

I found an even more important reason for migrating to foreign cars was the way the dealer treated you when you have a problem. I will never buy ford again because of this.

oh-oh.... look out now.

I have 500,000 KM on my escort GT (mazda engine) but it's almost all original clutch and wheel bearing and belts and rotors that's it. pretty darn good and still rolls very nice on the high way. And 37 miles per Canadian gallon

I would like a Honda but the focus is less money and seems a good bet. Can't stand driving Toyota's they just don't do it for me. I know quality blah blah! just too basic for what you get.

It's not too hard for Ford to beat a company like Toyota in quality. Ford just has to slightly improve or remain level year over year, while Toyota continues to shoot itself in the foot by reducing quality year over year.

Kinda hard to compare long term quality when the new cars are still new. For those claiming that this survey means nothing due to the short initial 3 month period, how about you wait 3 more months and get the results of the initial 6 month period.

If that's not enough, wait another 3 months, then another, then another, then another... etc.

This is unsurprising. The japs didn't even know what quality control was until Americans went to japan and taught them what it was. There isn't some mythical cultural quality advantage they have by virture of being japanese. We taught them quality control and they ran with it. Now the Americans are running with it as well.

Jap quality? Maybe you should read below? Unfortunately, Consumers Report nor the media never report the problems with the little jap cars (of course Japan is in bed with Consumers Report). I have had many American cars- and none had sludge in their engines. And they have gotten well over 200,000 miles. And most of them had a lot more performance and look a heck of lot better than the PLAIN-LOOKING little jap cars (can you say Accord and Camery). I am also amazed at how many so-called Americans love to beat up on our American companies. You don't have to buy them, but you don't need to beat them up every chance you get either. UNITED States- what joke. We aren't a UNITED country at all. If you aren't going to support America and its companies- why don't you leave this country? We need to make America stronger by joining together and help keep our American companies in business.

Toyota expands sludge payment policy

Automotive News / April 03, 2002

Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. on Wednesday said it will cover customers' costs associated with engine sludge problems in some Toyota and Lexus vehicles for eight years from the date of first sale or lease.

The new policy is a sharp departure from the action Toyota took in February, when it told owners it would pay repair costs for sludge damage for one year in cases where customers could provide proof of "reasonable efforts" to maintain their vehicles.

The auto maker insists the problem is caused by poor vehicle maintenance.

Sludge buildup in engines is the result of engine oil oxidizing and turning into a gel-like substance. The buildup could prompt vehicle owners to replace their engines.

The customer satisfaction program announced Wednesday calls for Toyota to pay for repair costs and expenses such as car rental and other out-of-pocket expenses that customers have paid or could incur as a result of damage from the engine sludge problem.

The program is for 3.3 million 1997 through 2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles with 3.0-liter, V-6, or 2.2-liter four-cylinder engines. There is no mileage limitation.

Vehicles with those engines include the Camry sedan and RX300 sport-utility vehicle.

No matter what positive news comes out about American car companies, I will still only consider buying Honda/Toyota. They produce proven long-term dependable vehicles, and didn't need a boot up their butt from the government to get their acts straight. They knew how to build satisfying cars in the first place.

No matter what positive news comes out about American car companies, I will still only consider buying Honda/Toyota. They produce proven long-term dependable vehicles, and didn't need a boot up their butt from the government to get their acts straight. They knew how to build satisfying cars in the first place.