Still ugly.

The Z3 was a much sexier car.

I hear the official name will be the Z4 Origami....

I just hope that the switch to a hard top convertible doesn't mean that they're killing the coupe.

Better, but the Cayman still look better.

Is it me or is the car starting to look like the old Jag's with the long V12 nose?

Is the BMW Z4 trying to be the new Jag? If so, junk the busy/buzy V6 and go for the torque of a V8 or better yet a 12....

Roadsters are supposed to have a long nose. And this new Z4 is pretty bad ass.... for a convertible.

meh.

I'm with Brian, the Z3 was much better these Z4's are just funny looking.

@sparky:
Is it me or is the car starting to look like the old Jag's with the long V12 nose?

Is the BMW Z4 trying to be the new Jag? If so, junk the busy/buzy V6 and go for the torque of a V8 or better yet a 12....

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There's absolutely NO good reason to go for a V8 or V12 ... I tried the BMW 135i ... the same 6 cylinder twin turbo than the one in this Z4 ... believe me ... it pulls pretty hard! It is a very impressive engine ... very powerful, yet doesn't need much more gas than the non-turbo 6 !!!!

I maybe wrong on this one, but I could bet that a V8-V12 comment comes from an American ... land of the big three bail out!!! Seriously, I'm not an anti-american, but in terms of automobile market, you guys should look up to German and Japanese markets ...

What people should look up to is what they like! Other that some rather bland styling for the most part, American cars are not that bad. Surprisingly ,some people could care less about the look of their car and don't like the Euro-Jap product.
While (in my opinion) American car companies should both trim down the choices and lose a brand or two,their product has become a lot more reliable. Few of the foreign cars really speak to me.
I'm sure you can tell I have an American car. Yes a 300C with a nicely modded hemi that not only runs great,but returns up to 30 mpg when cruising the highway ( more normally 25-26) . I have a hemi pickup closing in on 100,000 that's used to tow a trailer and a boat. 18 mpg and not 1 problem. Buy what ya like.
After the torque of these two I have-I would never want a V6 Turbo or not. You just can't replace good old fashioned torque!

Here we go again. Viper vs ZR1. Viper has 8.4L v10 making 600hp and 560 lb-ft of torque, weighing 3430 lbs and getting 13/22 for fuel economy. ZR1 has a 6.2L v8 supercharged engine making 638hp and 604 lb-ft of torque, weighing 3350 lbs and getting 14/20 for fuel economy.

Alright, less extreme example. Cadillac CTS AWD. 3.6L v6 engine making 304 hp and 273 lb-ft of torque, weighs 4118 lbs, getting 17/26 for fuel economy. Evo-X. 2.0L in-line 4 turbo making 291 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, weighs 3585 lbs, getting 17/22 for fuel economy. I am sorry, but a 500 lb weight difference and the Evo doesn't come close? Heck, the new Sierra XFE is rated 15/21 weighing a whopping 5,000 lbs for extended cab and makes 315hp and 338 lb-ft of torque with a 5.3L v8. It is actually cheaper to run a year vs the Evo-X thanks to using regular vs premium according to the EPA.

We can look at the de-tuned Evo-X, the Ralliart. It has a 2.0L in line 4 turbo making 237hp and 253 lb-ft of torque, weighing 3426 lbs and getting 17/25 for gas mileage. So now we have a car that gets same mileage, less power and weighs 692 lbs less then a CTS AWD.

Now some one says something about the Cobalt SS. Sure, let's go there. 2.0L in-line 4 turbo making 260hp and 260 lb-ft of torque, weighs 2975 lbs and getting 22/30 for fuel economy. Let's see, a 500 lb weight difference from the Ralliart and over a 1100 lb difference from the CTS AWD. That couldn't have something to do with it.

The BMW 335i which everyone seems so keen to talk about. 3.0L in-line 6 twin turbo making 300hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, weighs 3605 lbs, and is getting 17/26 for fuel economy. For apples to apples, a CTS RWD weighs 3874 lbs.

You want better gas mileage, make cars lighter. Turbo/super charging isn't the way. As for fuel price differences that was brought up, around here regular is now $1.47, mid grade around $1.67, premium is $1.87. 27% price increase for premium, and as shown above, turbo/super charging either does worse or breaks even.

Avatar- Thank you! you get it.
Better comparison to the Evo would be a 300 C ( 6 vs. 8) 345 hp/390 ft lbs.Rated at 17/25 curb weight 4120. Now know 500 lbs off and see what the final numbers would be. At at that weight my (again my car-slightly modded) is close to the 4 second 0-60 range

PhilTheThrill:

There's absolutely NO good reason to go for a V8 or V12 ...

I maybe wrong on this one, but I could bet that a 'No Reason For A V8/V10' comment comes from a European/Jap car lover... land of the torque-free society, over-regulated government, and overpriced/taxed gas. Seriously, I'm not an anti-European/Jap, but in terms of automobile market, you guys should drive an American V8/V10 muscle then drive the busy/buzzy turbo car-toys. Give me the instant torque, sound, and fun from a powerful V8 any day over the revving and winding up the clock of a I4/V6 turbo...

A Turbo on a V8/V10 probably gives you the best of both worlds, fast torque and extreme pull; which is EXACTLY where I would want this Z4 to have for it's price. Not some lame overworked turbo V6 that can only 'pull' when it winds up. V6 on this quality of car is stupid.

lol - You know I'm just kidding. Well, not really…

Posted on December 16, 2008 05:09

Avatar:
Here we go again. Viper vs ZR1. Viper has 8.4L v10 making 600hp and 560 lb-ft of torque, weighing 3430 lbs and getting 13/22 for fuel economy. ZR1 has a 6.2L v8 supercharged engine making 638hp and 604 lb-ft of torque, weighing 3350 lbs and getting 14/20 for fuel economy.

Alright, less extreme example. Cadillac CTS AWD. 3.6L v6 engine making 304 hp and 273 lb-ft of torque, weighs 4118 lbs, getting 17/26 for fuel economy. Evo-X. 2.0L in-line 4 turbo making 291 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, weighs 3585 lbs, getting 17/22 for fuel economy. I am sorry, but a 500 lb weight difference and the Evo doesn't come close? Heck, the new Sierra XFE is rated 15/21 weighing a whopping 5,000 lbs for extended cab and makes 315hp and 338 lb-ft of torque with a 5.3L v8. It is actually cheaper to run a year vs the Evo-X thanks to using regular vs premium according to the EPA.

We can look at the de-tuned Evo-X, the Ralliart. It has a 2.0L in line 4 turbo making 237hp and 253 lb-ft of torque, weighing 3426 lbs and getting 17/25 for gas mileage. So now we have a car that gets same mileage, less power and weighs 692 lbs less then a CTS AWD.

Now some one says something about the Cobalt SS. Sure, let's go there. 2.0L in-line 4 turbo making 260hp and 260 lb-ft of torque, weighs 2975 lbs and getting 22/30 for fuel economy. Let's see, a 500 lb weight difference from the Ralliart and over a 1100 lb difference from the CTS AWD. That couldn't have something to do with it.

The BMW 335i which everyone seems so keen to talk about. 3.0L in-line 6 twin turbo making 300hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, weighs 3605 lbs, and is getting 17/26 for fuel economy. For apples to apples, a CTS RWD weighs 3874 lbs.

You want better gas mileage, make cars lighter. Turbo/super charging isn't the way. As for fuel price differences that was brought up, around here regular is now $1.47, mid grade around $1.67, premium is $1.87. 27% price increase for premium, and as shown above, turbo/super charging either does worse or breaks even.
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You had me up until you started using gas prices as an argument. The same goes for everyone falling into the trap that since gas prices are low right now, they should go back to the poor practice of buying big gas hogs. You just got lured right back into an oil company and car company trap. Our planet is going to hell, regardless of what the gas prices are. I'm not a tree hugger but it astounds me how dumb American consumers are. We (well you as I know how to save and show some concern) are so materialistic now and take EVERYTHING for granted. The next time Iran says something, or we have a natural disaster speculators will raise gas prices again and you'll be crying again and wishing you didn't have all the "torque." I do agree with lightening cars.

Oil is a commodity who's time will come.Get over it! I don,t think anyone is falling into a "trap" by the artificially low prices right now. Agreed we must look to the future but know you're facts first. Still 150 years of oil. After a well is considered dead there is still oil left in that well ( research the subject so I don't waste all my time. Venezuela is our biggest importer. OPEC does affect futures.

torque is nice but a lighter car with a rear wheel drive and less weight on the back won't be utilizing that much torque, and we all know that such, causes too much wheel spin,
unless you find more fun burning rubber and doing tricks than doing corners.

by now you can guess the reason for the popularity of Porshe 911s.

@Mike M:

..you probably wish you could be like us dumb Americans and have the best of both worlds. Have a good economy car that get's excellent gas ratings (>35) to use for work, and a fun to drive muscle car/truck that get's 'ok' gas ratings (15 to 22) for play.

By being a smart American that lives in a fantastic society that allows one to own both types of cars (and the freedom to do so without over regulation and taxed to death), I use each car for what it was designed for rather than foced into a constant compromise of the overpriced one size fits all mentality. This way, I still have the average gas consumption of around 26 which is still very good and I get to drive a huge, powerful, American, wasteful, materialistic, taken for granted cheap muscle car when I want to. Gas goes up, I simply drive the economy-car more.. Gas is now cheap, so I drive the muscle car more - as I am doing today and loving every second of it :). Have fun with your one-size-fits-all compromised and over regulated society.....

-a dumb American lol

Agreed with a lot of comments after Mike M. The other thing you have to realize is that alternates are popping up. Like taking a gas engine and modifying it to run on E85. There have been/are talks of starting algae farms to make E85. You also have to look at bio-diesel too. My next truck is most likely going to be that new small block diesel GM is releasing. Bio diesel can more or less be refined from any sort of food product/waste.

sparky, excellent point. I don't drive my truck everyday of the week or my Firehawk or GTO. Having options is a smart thing. I am fortunate in that my job allows me to have many options do to its nature(GTO, truck, and Sunfire all written off in taxes). If I had to choose between two, most likely truck and GTO. GTO does very good on the highway, which is were I drive the most. Truck to hall stuff around and for nasty weather, which it was nasty out today and works better in ice/snow then Sunfire does.

WOW! This is a hell of a reaction!

The whole point I was trying to make is ... please go get a test drive with the 300hp engine twin turbo and if you don't have a whole lot of fun with it, then I really don't know what is your definition of fun ... I didn't feel any lag at all! the torque curve is incredible.

Yes some V8 are pretty good ... I was just saying that in this case, the Z4, you won't have more torque/power than this incredible engine with a regular V8 and you will add some weight ... and it would have to be a pretty small V8.

The other problem with big displacement is not one found in America, but pretty much in all of the other big car markets of the world. You should see the size of the cars in all of Europe, in Japan, etc. If you take a 300C for example, I'm not saying it's a bad car, but you just cannot sell that car to mr. Everybody around the world ... way too big! So the demand being smaller cars than this one around the world, well you should probably concentrate your efforts on building what would make you earn way more money ... if you build smaller cars, putting a V8 in it can become a challenge...I'm just saying...

I really hope that the American companies will be saved. But like a few people from the senate think: they will have to change something with the "decision making" of the past 10-15 years.

@PhilTheThrill

And you can't sell a ForTwo to Mr./Mrs Everbody around the world eather...way too small.

Depends on demographic PhilTheThrill. Large, open high ways found in America, Canada, Australia, the Middle East, etc prefer large, 'cruiser' cars. Average-good highway mileage and okay to bad city. City based environments like Europe, China, and Japan prefer smaller, 'city' cars. Great city economy but maybe not the greatest highway mileage compared to size/power for a large car. There are naturally exceptions to these generalizations.

Everything has its place, sub compacts, compacts, mid size, full size, trucks, and SUVs all have there place and uses. Likewise, if you can afford to have something and want it, then by all means get it if you feel so inclined.

I believe the twin-turbo that BMW flaunts these days is nearly lagless.... twin-turbos, is it not?

I don't know... I'd think a 300hp/300 instant pounds of torque would be pretty fun... but that's just me.

It is definitely a step up from the last generation. Anyway, who really cares about gas mileage when you're purchasing a $40,000+ vehicle.