Shakes head.

First GM announces they are going to rush the Volt into production (bad idea), now they are going to strip away one of it's main selling points and "normalize" the cars range just like any other vehicle.

I'm amazed just thinking what they plan to do next.......

I LOVE WHINING !

GM needs a better consulting firm, if the best they could do is deflect focus on the limited engineering into a bladdder size comment. Sad. Very Sad.

Up next: More excuses for the flagship electric product.

@CKV:

GM didn't say they were pushing up production, they were simply anouncing the car early. Perhaps getting your facts straight would result in less whining...

Personally I don't care if they dropped from 600 to 400 mile range, If they dropped from 600 to 200 it'd be a problem. I've never once gone that far on a road trip without seeing a gas station. As long as it gets similar range to a regular 4 door sedan, there's really no problem with it IMO.

Teenage boys, using off-the-shelf electronics and low-tech lead acid batteries from Wal-Mart, have successfully converted gasoline powered cars to run on electricity at various San Diego high schools for years now. Most of these cars get at least 40 miles on a charge and can be safely driven on the freeway. The total cost for parts is typically only about $10,000 and many of the car owners do the conversion work themselves. Workshops on how to do these conversions are taught by a local retired high school shop teacher for a nominal fee.

It seems to me that this Volt shouldn't be a big challenge for a major multinational car manufacturer with thousands of highly trained engineers and technicians at its disposal. What's the big deal?

If Tesla, a start-up with absolutely no experience building cars, can produce such an awesome electric super car with a much greater range, then GM should be able to solve this challenge nicely. That is, if they really want to.

I really see no big down side to this, a smaller gas tank is lighter and will make more room for cargo and passengers. The real pont behind cars like this isn't to make fewer stops at the pump, it's to save money on gas in general.

@godZilla28

As an engineer I find your post quite amusing.

I've seen these "homemade conversions". They do not even come close to the reliability or safety of a mass-produced automobile. I'd love to see a crash test done on one of these cars stuffed with lead-acid batteries that aren't even properly mounted, considering the amount of mass they have.

As to Tesla, have you been following the problems they've been having in getting their car ready? Just google Tesla and Transmission to se what I'm talking about. Oh, and what is the price on a Tesla? Let's see them make an electric vehicle that will sell for the same price as a Volt or Prius.

As to the gas tank size, who cares? It's a non-issue. The biggest selling point of the Volt is that it's a plug-in hybrid that can go 40 miles on a charge. That hasn't changed one bit. If they had announced the electric range had dropped from 40 to 20 miles, that'd would probably kill any chances of this vehicle selling.

I can't wait for this car. Where I live electricity is cheap and my daily commute is less than 40 miles round-trip. I'll probably never hear the gas engine run in this car except on weekends.

the point is, if you dont drive more than 40 miles combined in one day, you wont even need to use a drop of fuel. So whats the big deal? they are trying to make the volt lighter and cheaper, so the average joe can afford it, un like a prius, which starts at almost 23k,

This actually makes sense as there will be less gasoline to ignite when the lithium ion batteries explode during a collision. They should include a first aid kit in the glove compartment.

Thanks, Reality for stealing my thunder...

Except to say.

600 miles on a tank is not even CLOSE to a top feature on this car. Particularly when you consider that a 12 gallon gas tank very likely would have ended up in fuel degradation issues.

Tommy Boy, anybody who wishes ill on people because of your own stupid biases makes me sick.

@ Robbed. Thats a good point on fuel degradation, what if somebody only drives it short distances and the fuel goes bad?
I have to say though that 400/12=33.3, which isnt that great for long trips for the price(probably)/size it will be. The main attraction of this car is in the first 40 miles of gas-free operation. Or perhaps gas stations will start "recharge stations" so you dont even need to use the gas, though stopping every 35-odd miles would get annoying, though do-able around here anyway...

Anyone remember overhead electric powered bumper cars? Are you thinking what I'm thinking, oh yeah! You wouldn't even need lights at night, the arcing and sparking would light up the whole road.

But really, as long as range is in the 400 mile area it's fine. Look at scooters, they are flying off the shelves around here and I imagine don't have great range (or speed for that matter).

@Alex. It would be 600/12=50mpg so doing the math that would make the new gas tank size 8 gallons 400/8=50mpg. That is pretty darn good mileage even for a manufacturer claim given this car is probably carrying a heavier battery pack than the Prius though the car itself I would imagine to be lighter without the batteries.

They better have a four door following soon if they don't want this thing to end up going the way of the Honda Insight. Just my opinion but I think the "better mileage for a given size vehicle" crowd is bigger than the "ultimate mileage vehicle" crowd.

You know, reality brings up a good point.

Let's say you purchase one of these cars (which by the way I'm looking forward to), and do live within the plug in driving radius.

How long does it take gasoline to go bad? Is the car smart enough to eventually use the gasoline before it expires?

Also, I wish everyone would stop regurgitating words that are used on this site. GM is not "rushing" this to market.... it's being given a much higher priority as the market dramatically shifted in recent months. I suspect when these do reach market, they won't be held together with ducktape and bubble gum.

As I've said before in other posts.... I've owned numerous Toyotas, and I now own 2 Chevy's (a Colorado and an Aveo) and they are, without a doubt the most reliable vehicles I've ever owned.

Most people, even if they live within a 40 mile commute to work, drive longer distances a few times a month, or at least a few times a year. Vacations, visiting relatives. etc. For the majority of people, that gas will get used before going bad.

But there are always a few people who are outside the norm. If they're smart they'll replace that fuel once or twice a year. (Sell it to a gas burning neighbor?)

And the reduction from 600 to 400 makes sense. I thought 600 was an odd choice when I first saw the mockup at a car show. Maybe by reducing weight of fuel carried they can extend the battery-only range a couple miles. That's well worth it.

Just bring back the EV1 already!

@Robbed:

"Tommy Boy, anybody who wishes ill on people because of your own stupid biases makes me sick."

Well good, but I think it's your lack of humor that's really making you sick. Maybe you should lay down for the rest of the day.

i drive 80 miles a day this volt is useless to me as i would need to buy a 80 mile extension cord and drive really slow...

These kids that are setting up the batteries in the cars are for hybrids that run on gas and electric to drive the car, right? This car will use gas to charge the batteries. Isn't this the difference with the Volt?

@dennisil:

Did you read the post?

The car has a range of 400 miles or for a 80 mile commute that would be about 100mpg.

This car is so vastly superior to any other hybrid, they are going to have a huge waiting list.

@RX-7 Guy:

This isn't a hybrid, it's a full electric with a deisel generator... The engine never powers the wheels, only charges the electrical system. However you are correct it is superior to any of the hybrids out there, this just isn't a hybrid. To be considered a Hybrid, cars/trucks/suv's have to have the gas engine and the electric motor able to spin the wheels directly...

@ dennisil:

'i drive 80 miles a day this volt is useless to me as i would need to buy a 80 mile extension cord and drive really slow...'

It's range on batteries ALONE is to be 40 miles. It would then kick in the gasoline powered internal combustion engine which, according to this article, allows it to travel up to an additional 360 miles. (At which time you could stop, refill the gas tank, and continue driving for another 360, etc...)

So, it WOULD work for you, unless you're looking for a pure electric vehicle that meets your needs. That's up to you, obviously.

@ Gary:

'This isn't a hybrid, it's a full electric with a deisel generator...'

There's so many hybrid variants out there it's hard to say what a 'real' hybrid is and isn't. The Volt plans to be what's called a 'Series' hybrid, where the wheels are always, and only, driven by electric motors, and the internal combustion engine is used as needed to supply electricity to re-charge the batteries and/or power the electric motors when the batteries are drained.

The Toyota Prius is more of a 'Parallel' hybrid, which can be driven by electric motors, or a driveshaft from an internal combustion engine, or a mix of the two, as needed.

For more info, check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_vehicle_drivetrain

How about 100 miles range with all plug in electric, and 600 miles with normal gasoline. That would be impressive. As always, GM fails to impress with new tech, and new capabilities. Another overpriced and underwhelming green POS.

Keep the range and make it out of carbon fiber. Early adopters would pay the exorbitant premium required, until economies of scale kicks in.

This vehicle sounds awesome. Almost every commercial building has outlets on the exterior. Going grocery shopping? Plug it in while you're there. Just bring an extension cord wherever you go. Or you could covertly run a cord over to your neighbours outlet. Mwahaha, free commuting!

As for the tank reduction, 400 miles is plenty. If it saves some weight and hopefully some space, then its good. Also, for dennisil, if you drive 80 miles round trip, just plug it in at work. Does anybody have an idea of what the mileage will be running the diesel generator? If its in the 30+ range, then for an 80 mile trip it would still give 60+ MPG (though you'd have to pay for the electricity for the first 40 miles).

@Alex

wont the gas stations just charge a bunch of money for the electric recharge service and negate any saving this will offer us?

reality:
"Oh, and what is the price on a Tesla? Let's see them make an electric vehicle that will sell for the same price as a Volt or Prius."

cobaltssman
"they are trying to make the volt lighter and cheaper, so the average joe can afford it, un like a prius, which starts at almost 23k,"

What is wrong with you rednecks? Do you not know how to read or search Google? The Volt is $40,000+ BEFORE dealer price gouging. If you know how to shop for a car, you can still get a Prius for for close to $20,000, which puts the Volt at double the price minimum.

And as for plugging it in on the cheap (at night), maybe for a year or two. The Volt supposed to come out in 2010 with a run of 10,000/year...do you really think Honda/Toyota/Nissan aren't going to have a competitive product? By 2012 when there is several hundred thousand BEV's on the road charging morning, noon and night, do you really think that the electricity companies aren't going to raise their rates and gouge us again (taking the place of the bath robe wearing douches from the mid east)?

Except most electric companies are just distributors. The organizations like the TVA are partially government owned at the state level they reside in due to the public funding necessary to build the plants.

Anyway they should release it now at 400. Its more than enough for most daily drivers. The price will only go down for every year its in production and the battery will only get stronger. This means by the time 2010 rolls around they will have 600 mile models at 20k due to two years of perfecting the supply line and manufacturing process.

First off, I like the Volt, and I always thought that 600 miles was excessive. 400 is a little more normal, and if you actually charged the thing every night and used the batteries as much as possible I'd imagine that most people wouldn't fill the (8 gallon = $35) tank more than once a month.

Secondly, I'm glad to see some pro-gm comments for once on here. The fact that GM's vehicles are among the most reliable, fuel efficient, and cheapest available has been totally overshadowed in the media by the fact that their sales have been dominated by big heavy thirsty trucks. They've always been the best trucks made though, and that's not going to change for those who need trucks.

Finally, let me clear up a few misconceptions on here for those of you who like to talk about things that you don't know about.

1) During the night time, power plants shut down because electricity demand is so low. Other power plants reduce output, thus, increasing the cost per megawatt due to the decreased efficiency of a power plant at reduced load. The price of electricity is drastically cheaper at night, despite this, because some plants can't shut down, and electricity demand is still low.

2) Nearly ALL of the utilities in the US are privately owned, but heavily regulated or just publicly owned. What does this mean to the consumer? You don't need to worry about price gouging from electricity because utilities are simply allowed to "earn" a certain percent profit based on cost. Additionally, you need not worry about the price of coal climbing, as the US has enough coal to power itself for about 200 years at current consumption without ever even looking for more coal. If we could learn to use electricity instead of gasoline we would never see another oil tanker off of our shores, and that's a fact.

3) You can't just plug into an outlet at a gas station and refill car batteries in 10 minutes. How long does it take to charge your cell phone from empty to full? Your cell phone is a Li Ion battery, just like hybrids, so the time required will be similar. This one was just disappointing, it's common sense people, think for a second before you type.

4) Once super-capacitors get more efficient, less leaky, and easier to manufacture, your dream of "filling up" at the grocery store while you shop may become a reality, but that's not going to be any time soon, so get used to the idea of only charging your car at night.

5) For those of you who want GM to just remove the engine, replace it with an electric motor, and fill all of the remaining space with lead-acid batteries, just do it yourself. I, for one, don't relish the idea of having my skin melted off with acid when the car wrecks, and I also don't like having the acceleration/braking of a school bus due to 3,000 lbs of batteries weighing the car down. If you really think that what's going on here is less difficult than what goes on in HS shop class then you're truly an imbecile, and have no comprehension of the complexity of the world around you; I award you no points, and my god have mercy on your soul.

I hope you now have a better understanding of the various factors in play here, and maybe a little more appreciation of the difficult task that all of the engineers working in the automotive industry have ahead of them.

How many miles would that be, towing a boat?

Headline, "GM snatches defeat from the jaws of vistory".
Every CEO knows that the public would hate to fill up their tanks less often.

Headline, "GM snatches defeat from the jaws of victory".
Every CEO knows that the public would hate to fill up their tanks less often.

Wow - so much talk and so little is going to change from your comments... wouldn't it just be better to wait and see what comes out instead of bitching about a yet unreleased product?!

besides GM really cares about what you say - they only care about what and if you shop with them so if you really want to make a change, don't support crappy products and either the co. will fade away or it'll try to do better to survive (this goes for every manufacturer of any product)

i hate that whenever i read these stories I've got to wait even longer to read the 3 pages of comments or my slow ass dial-up :(

@Carter

It may take a while for a full charge, but I can see any time you're going to be parked for 15 minutes or longer you just plug your car in and get whatever charge you can while you're there. Also, my cell phone gets a full charge in about 20 minutes or so, though I rarely drain it below 50%.

Ok, that's true, you could do that, but we're talking about the difference between seeing a nickel and picking it up or just walking by here. Your cell phone actually takes much longer to charge, but with the poor battery monitoring devices within cell phone batteries it will "read" that it's full after 20 minutes but then go back down more quickly than if you'd have left it on the charger longer. The same thing happens when you're close to empty: It will read "one bar" worth of charge but still last all day, while when it's reading "five bars" it will use three of them over the course of the day. Bottom line: you ain't going to be driving 40 miles, stopping to "charge up" and then driving another 40.

FYI: The reason the devices don't read properly is because they monitor voltage rather than the amount of current that has been discharged. Your volt will almost certainly monitor available power more accurately and thus you will notice how little charge 15 minutes will get you. Either way, if it's free then I guess why not right?

IN order to keep GM from going into the red like Ford, they need to...
A. Make their vehicles more fuel efficient. In turn they will sell more and making more profits.
B. With the extra profits, make more vehicles in America. In turn gaining more support from Americans.
When they secede in doing the first two things...
C Rub it in Fords face and boast about making most of their vehicles in America in commercials

Why is this news now? Popular Science two months ago stated that the Volt was going to get "About 400 miles between fill-ups".