1st

Nice.
2nd

2 to 5kw? I will be surprised if that much.

I think its a cool idea and its aboutbygod time.

Wonder if they would supply a way for me to like park it outside and connect a pigtail wiring harness to my house so I can run the electric meter backward? (haha) Just kidding......no, I'm not.

why are they using NimH instead of lithium ion battery to power the car?

The sun's energy, unobtructed at the equator, is roughly 1kw per square meter. The roof of a car (that could be used for solar panels) is roughly a square meter. PV panels are about 12-20% efficient. So, not only is 2-5kw completely impossible, it's totally ridiculous too.

1 square meter would be 150 watts (assuming you're In the middle of a desert, on the equator, with no cloud cover, smog, or humidity and your panels are 15% efficient). This is between 1/13 and 1/33 the prediction of TR. That's a completely outlandish prediction by TR. In reality, taking all the variables into account, i'd guess TR is estimating it to be 100x more efficient than it actually will be in most of the country.

It takes 10+ square miles of solar panels, under perfect conditions, to produce the same as a large commercial nuclear reactor. Not the top of 200,000 people's cars.

TR, do some research.

Expecting TR to do research ? Good luck with that. I'm sure the writers are paid by the piece (and not very much at all) so the emphasis is on volume, not quality. That would explain why there's so much rehashing of similiar models with similiar stories.

On the subject of the solar panels, a few luxury cars already have this but Toyota will be the first, I believe, to introduce it to the middle market. Once again, Toyota pushes innovation and a "cool" factor.

At the same time, GM has just announced it is laying off thousands of it's white-collar workers and accelerating the selling off of several of it's poorly performing divisions as it continues to hemorrhage. That company is in a complete free-fall

I LOVE WHINING !

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it's != its

I LOVE GRAMMAR !

It's a great idea none the less. About time someone is actually trying to make it work. Hopefully this will be adopted - thus more money into r&d- and will become much more efficient.

2-5 kilowatts can't be right, assuming they are using units similar to those used the measure the output of residential solar installations.

In home installations, it typically takes 10-20 panels to generate 2kw's. With each residential panel being maybe 2 feet wide and 3-5 feet long, you can easily see that the available surface area of a Prius isn't sufficient for that amount of output.

Maybe they are talking watt-hours? If the panels they intend for the Prius will put out 100 watts (possible) and the car is exposed to an average of 3 good hours of sunlight a day (2 peak hours, with an iffy hour on each side) they'd provide 300 watt-hours a day, or 2,100 watt-hours a week. Not enough to extend the cars range much, but certainly enough to run a decent radio/gps etc.

"why are they using NimH instead of lithium ion battery to power the car?"

Primarily due to cost of lithium Ion I'm betting.

2nd.. Due to better life span/higher charge cycle count of NimH vs the constant degradation of lithium ion batteries.

Who cares? Even if it does produce 5kW (5000 J/s), it really doesn't matter. A typical gallon of gas contains about 130 Million Joules of energy. Assuming my math is right, it'd take over 7 hours to generate the energy equivalent of one gallon of gas.

In real life, with real numbers, I'm guessing you need optimal conditions for a week in order to generate the equivalent of a gallon of gas. Payback time on the panels is going to be awfully long.

If only there was a way my car could run on water instead.

Hey! Look! In that box at the bottom of the page! All my problems are solved!

As some have posted this approach doesn't really make sense. While it is a good idea, it's probably a waste of r&d and should be avoided at all costs. I'm not sure how much energy or costs go into the production of these solar panels, but it probably is more than the amount of gas it would save, so where's the real benefit? There's so much more money in large scale solar farms if they could achieve a very high efficiency, let them pioneer the process and then apply it to other things. This doesn't seem to be much more of a marketing ploy to keep toyota looking eco friendly. It may work, but I wouldn't get your hopes up that this makes it to production or realizes any notable cost savings (what does this cost anyway????)

Efficency or cost effectiveness aside, getting some money into the Solar industry is a great way to get more efficient panels developed. There's already a solar kit for the Insight that is supposed to let you drive about 10 miles on electricity alone, not ground breaking by any means, but enough to get you to the store and back...

As long as they make this an option on the Prius its probably a good idea, otherwise it may drive us the price of the car too much. If its capable of charging the batteries (and not just used on the fly for A/C, nav system, radio, etc), then it could be useful for people that live in very sunny areas and drive short distances infrequently. The panels probably won't even pay for themselves over the lifetime of the vehicle anyways, but money isn't the reason people buy the Prius, its the whole saving the planet thing (devastating environmental damage from battery production aside).

the hole thing is BS calling it what it is. 5K solar panels on the roof! lol Hey i have ocean front property in AZ for sale with solar panles that will power the whole state. This is just like the Hydrogen Car all BS. Sure they can build it for 5-10 Mil abd have a few stars in hollywood drive them just top show how cool are they? Green too, sure what about the power it took to make that hydrogen + the special needs of the system cost more fuel than it saved, but hey it sounds cool.

Litium is far better even by todays, why dont they use them? Chevy Volt will have lithium why? they are half the weight and store more power. NICADS are deadly when tossed in the dump Litium not so. Every hy tech thing you own right now is lithium not NIcads Nicads loose power just sitting there, thats why Prius must have a gas motor, if it was a plug in it would not stay charged long as they age this gets worse as well. They have 60 mile AEC All Electric Cars now? 80% of the USA this is perfect

That sure is one ugly vehicle. Is it absolutely impossible to design a next gen vehicle that doesn't look like a shiny dog turd.

if the base model is less than 20K it will be a good deal good luck!

@LocalMan57
"Who cares? Even if it does produce 5kW (5000 J/s), it really doesn't matter. A typical gallon of gas contains about 130 Million Joules of energy. Assuming my math is right, it'd take over 7 hours to generate the energy equivalent of one gallon of gas.

In real life, with real numbers, I'm guessing you need optimal conditions for a week in order to generate the equivalent of a gallon of gas. Payback time on the panels is going to be awfully long."

Very true, but what is wrong with that? During a good week my car sits in the sun for over 8 hours a day.. If during one week I get enough energy to be equivalent to 1 Gallon of Gas, thats 35miles *avg* for my car, and in the mid 40's for the Prius. Thats 1 way trip to work for me a week, or 4 over the course of a month *more for some*. Sure, that doesn't sound like too much, but 4 Gallons up here in Canada goes for about $24 atm, so close to $300 over the course of a year, and as Gas goes up in price, so does the savings.

Right now, that $24 you save a month may not seem worth the extra cost of installing the solar panels (if they are a few grand), but as the panels become cheaper and gas goes up in price, it may definitely become a sought after accessory.

this is only powering accessories..

PV cells produce 15-20 W/sq ft. Then, there is the added weight, depending on the PV tech.

@Doc

What are you talking about?

Lithium is fine to put in the dump, but not NiMh? What do you think Lithium is? It's certainly more harmful thank nickel that's for sure. Hence why most states, and businesses will recycle your cell phone batter, laptop batter, or just about any battery out there. (Lead, nickel, and lithium should not end up in a land fill. Of course if they did we will just mine it out one day anyway).

And what is this about NiMh just dying on it's own? Really? Sure you loose about 60-80% of your charge over 6 months, but I think most people who buy a hybrid are going to drive it more than twice a year. Even at once a week I doubt you'll loose more than a few percent charge. On the flip side, Li-ion does hold a charge fairly well, but it is more expensive to build, more complex to charge, and in general ages very poorly. Ever notice how your laptop battery only holds half (if that much) its charge after 3 years? It's not because you just leave it plugged in all the time.

The main reason they are moving to NiMh. I'm sure it's cost. The second reason, probably PR. Mining lithium is not a pretty business (usually involving strip mining), and the smelting/extraction process isn't exactly the most environmentally friendly thing ever. So yeah, much like the Hydrogen economy, Li-ion has it's place. And several hundred pounds of it under the hood of everyones car probably isn't it.

Now will someone get off there butt and make us some cheap nano tube ultra capactiors?

@CKV

my god stop posting shit under my name.

Well I think it's a great idea. At least now the bird crap won't mess up your paint on the roof of the car. NiMh batteries, great, they are cheaper but don't last as long as Li-Ion batteries. Why not stick a 1.5l diesel in there and call it a day. 60+mpg

To cobaltssman:

It's rather arrogant to correct someone's grammar or spelling. Then again, you probably own or want to own a Cobalt SS. Therefore, ignorance and arrogance once again go hand in hand.

For the most part, NiMh batteries also don't combust into a supernova in a collision. Minor point.

@ Fred.

Neither do MOST Li-Ion Batteries. Only poorly assembled Chinese batteries. When you cut corners stuff happens.

@Grammer-tards
who cares, it's not like we speak English anyway. I had to think for a sec about what rubbish was last time I flew BAO. We speak American which is a dynamic language. So :P

:)

Hi Tim:

Do you own a Cobalt SS too?!

@Tim

Lithium is a highly reactive element that is typically stored in oil because of its flammable and potentially explosive reaction to water, including air moisture. Typical consumer Li-ion batteries have built-in thermal overload protection which works fairly well if the housing isn't compromised. These protective devices don't work particularly well when subjected to the forces encountered in an auto collision.

Interesting that it will have two electric motors -- I'm thinking one of the motors will be at the rear to give the Prius AWD (akin to the system in the Highlander and RX400h hybrids) and even better fuel economy.

maybe reliability and cooling issues reasons for having two electric motors. maybe, less cost too than having a single more powerful yet complex motor.

They've never had a reliability or cooling issue with the previous Priuses though...all the Toyota/Lexus hybrids that have two electric motors are AWD, so I'm hoping that's the case with the Prius (I'm looking for an Toyota/Lexus AWD hybrid, though none exist under 50 G's)

Great... the first hail storm this car goes through... you're out three grand or so... before you even visit the body shop!

Great idea.