Does GM pay for the posts on this site or what? I realize it's "new info" but come on, 3 camaro posts in 3 days is a bit much. Especially since it used to be 5 posts per week for it.

Let's get the conversation started. This pig of a car is ugly, slow, and lousy on gas. What was GM thinking? Discuss.

let the flames begin

I'm sick of looking at this pile of crap and it hasnt even been released yet.

I'm sick of looking at this pile of crap and it hasnt even been released yet.

So it's 4 seconds faster than the Cobalt ss around the ring, and much faster in a straight line (thanks RWD) while getting about 5-7 mpg less? Sounds fantastic. So in a race down a twisty road this 35k(?) car could get schooled by a 21k car from the same company that's more efficient but undoubttedly a bore to drive(fwd).

The Corvette c6 z51 runs it in 7:59.

I still like it. It looks tough, goes fast, and probably does some sweet burnouts/doughnuts with RWD. That being said, I'd either pay 10k(+/-) more for the vette or 15k(+/-) less for cobaltss.

I'll still never drive anything that's assembled by UAW labor, so I guess Chevy is out completely.

For crying out loud - i'm so sick of seeing this GM POS and its not even released yet

For crying out loud - i'm so sick of seeing this GM POS and its not even released yet

So it's 4 seconds faster than the Cobalt ss around the ring, and much faster in a straight line (thanks RWD) while getting about 5-7 mpg less? Sounds fantastic. So in a race down a twisty road this 35k(?) car could get schooled by a 21k car from the same company that's more efficient but undoubttedly a bore to drive(fwd).

The Corvette c6 z51 runs it in 7:59.

I still like it. It looks tough, goes fast, and probably does some sweet burnouts/doughnuts with RWD. That being said, I'd either pay 10k(+/-) more for the vette or 15k(+/-) less for cobaltss.

I'll still never drive anything that's assembled by UAW labor, so I guess Chevy is out completely.

Not a bad time, still ugly, but I guess its a decent performer considered how huge it is.

And what's with all the double posts?

GM is free to build whatever vehicle they like, no matter how much of a gas guzzler it is.

That being said... I really have to wonder what GM is up to. Their vehicles have absolutely no appeal to the younger generation. Everyone I know that purchased vehicles (Age 23-29), purchased imports, including myself, whether new or used. When any one of us look for a car, almost never is a domestic ever on the list (except the ford focus, and the current one is just too damn ugly).

With gas prices, and the targeted audience of this vehicle getting on in their age (the baby boomers will soon be all classified as seniors), I just do not see GM picking up in sales anytime soon.

Not a bad time, still ugly, but I guess its a decent performer considered how huge it is.

And what's with all the double posts?

@Cove:

Pushing the POST button ONCE is all it takes.

4.6 is quick to 60, but the question on most of our minds is what is the official tow rating of this vechicle? will they offer an off road package (mud tires)..lol

honestly though how will this actually help GM position itself as the right choice for people looking for quality and reliability along with resale value???

Speed is the most important part of GM's comback? is that the only way they can destinguish themselves?

America is ready for change so why do we keep going to the past for answers to todays problems. this car looks nice, its fast and inevitebly will sell well ....But its not innovative, its not futureistic, its not imaginative, its just the same old car gm's been pumping out in the last 20 years, ok so it has an independant rear suspension ok so that would mean that its potentially fast but 8:20 arround the ring isnt bad but there are faster cars like the subaru impreza wrx sti that laped the ring in 8:05 using sport racing tires, funny thing is tha car hit that time back in 2004, so 4 years later americans still cant beat the japs time even with a 400+hp pure sports car... ok you want a better american car well GM's cobalt SS lapped the ring in 8:22 so why would you spend more money on the camaro just to look cool? funny thing is i bet you just wont buy it.

Some of you wonder how come i dont have any respect for the home team well its not that i hate gm i just know that they are getting help to stay afloat with our tax dollars so i want to have a say as to where my tax dollars are spent. this is not acceptable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordschleife_fastest_lap_times

Perhaps I shall purchase 2 of these for my 10yr old grandkids so they can pretend they're driving that Bumblee character from that Transformers movie...cause what else are these things good for?

We love it!

I'm in my twenties and the car appeals to me. Driving pocket rockets turns me off. I believe anyone who can afford it (gas and all) will buy it, just like any other vehicle.

Garrett:
"almost never is a domestic ever on the list (except the ford focus, and the current one is just too damn ugly)."

Which is actually a European car.....

I can't believe the Cobalt is being discussed here.

That car is the biggest piece of shit ever and anyone driving it, including the SS version, should be thoroughly embarassed.

LOL @ COBALT

omg Ayabe stop

How much is this? Another pontiac GTO i guess...
If its around 35k, only some domestic fan boys will buy it.
stil like mai BMW 335 coupe way better, girls dig it too!

@ brad:

I was under the impression that the current NA focus is built on the previous gen chassis. I could be wrong, but that doesn't make the 08 focus any more appealing (although it's mpg and reliability are apparently pretty good)

@Baron

Of course I am not saying that no younger potential clients will like it, however I would much rather take a 350z or G35, and I don't consider those to be riced out vehicles, and you can't deny that the car is targeted towards people that grew up with the Camaro.

Correct Garret, the Focus is still on it's same platform as it was in 2007. Just a facelift (the nose is u-g-l-y) for the most part until the "Eurofocus" hits the showrooms.

We got a batch of 2008 Malibu's from our local police department this week to get fitted for undercover traffic duty. My first grip with the new Malibu.
Much better than the last generation. Interior plastics are now pliable where they need to be, not just hard plastic anymore. The body got a little smaller too, which is a good thing. Still looks a little plain though. But again, it's better than the last one. My only complaint so far was removing the headlamps to install LED strobes. It was by far the worst capsule removal for me in recent memory. Grab a 6-pack and invite your friends over for this one.

New to this site, quite fun to read.

Has a price range been mentioned? I find the tires kind of skinny. I noticed the Volt is like that too.

I like it overall, but the grill is a bit cartoonist.

Poor yuppies in their BMW 3 series can't get away from the rednecks chasing them in Camaro's trying to take a look at their hot gold digging girlfriend in the passenger seat. Hee Haw!!

haha i have to say that it is nice, skip the v6 go for a 427 and call it good

I am in my Forty’s and the car appeals t me. It seems that most of you people just don't understand this car. It is a MUSCLE CAR. There is a Market for Muscle Cars. I have to laugh when people compare it to Subaru WRX or a Cobalt SS. It is Apples and Grapefruit. This car should not even be mentioned with anything but a Mustang or a Challenger. It was designed to set you back in the seat with a lot of low end torque and go in a straight line, first, good handling is secondary to a Muscle Car. The fact that it handles as good as it does is icing on the cake, but seriously, stop comparing it to Japanese and German cars. It is not a fair comparison, when the original Muscle cars were built, the Japanese were building cheap little rust buckets and the Europeans were more interested in road handling cars than anything else, most of the common cars built in Europe during the sixties were underpowered junk at the time. This an AMERICAN MUSCLE CAR, nothing else.

HOW MUCH IS IT?!

The delay is making me really nervous. When the 4th gen cars came out in 93, they were amazing bargains and sold well.

GM slowly crept the pricing up and refused to offer incentives when there were heavy incentives on every other GM product... all the while complaining they weren't selling well.

My biggest concern at this point is that commercially, they are going to pick up where the left off...

i am hundred fourty years old, and i hate it.
It is all muscle and no brain. The world has moved on, except for IOWA and South Dakota, perhaps.

@ The Man From Utopia,

Wow, you nailed it. It's a niche car for old geezers. And what happens to niche cars for old geezers you ask?

They get marked up $5,000 for the first 3 months or so, then they sell for 9 months to a year, then they don't sell at all, then they're discontinued.

Niche cars that everyone (women) likes (ie. Mini Coopers) sell well.

The Mustang sells because the V6 models are very cheap and even the GT model bases at $25k. This Camaro is going to be like the Challenger, way overpriced for the sporting V8 model. At 35-40k the BMW 335i or even the Lexus IS350 are the cars to buy, and are nearly as fast in a straight line. Or why not a pre-owned low mile C6 Corvette (you gotta love domestic depreciation)?

It's all about image. I rather be seen in this car than a Chevy Cobalt SS.

You will get noticed and not laughed at as you cruise the streets. Any rice boy pulling up beside me at the lights better think twice. Vroom, vroom!

Want to race? Meet me at the tracks if you have the cahunas!

For instance, a quick autotrader search within 50 miles of me netted several C6 Corvettes for $32-36 w/only 4,000-15,000 miles on them.

I'll race you, Firebird_70.

@ firebird_70

Im pretty sure my cobalt can smoke your F-body, i do it all the time. dont get me wrong, if i could afford it the Camaro ss i would buy it in a heart beat, is a sick ride. But a old firebird, they sound sick, but 0-60 in 6 sec from a v8? come on now?

Why do you guys all pretend to be so smart?

because we are Americans. We know how to do things right.

These types of cars are definately designed for babyboomers. According to latest insurance statitics babyboomers currently comprise 26.75% of the population. BUT....they control 2/3 of every U.S. dollar spent. Astounding statistic. So anyone connected with large-scale business knows that many companies are only waiting for their chance to tap into the B/Bs retirement.
They ask themselves, "When the B/Bs retire, what car will they want to spend thier money on?". GM is hoping the answer is, "something that they loved when they were young". And, for the most part, the price of gasoline is only a consideration at best.

Just a thought.

@cobaltssman

You need to be REALLY careful with the early gen pony cars... they were relatively slow stock, but there aren't many stock one's on the road. Once the car's modified it's anyone's guess.

Regarding the 335 and IS350 being "Almost as fast"... the 335i's low 13's isn't going to offer much competition to this car... I expect to see mid 12's given its power to weight. The last gen LS1 F-body's were running low 13's with a lot less power.

And the IS350? LOL... that's REALLY funny. 14 second car "Almost as fast"... I don't think so. My lowly LT1 was that fast stock 12 years ago - and when it was stock it was SLLLLOOOWWW (it also handled like crap and couldn't stop to save it's life... AND the headlights sucked, but I was just a kid with his first new car... I LOVED it).

When you start talking HANDLING then the 335 case is a LOT more valid, it's a GREAT car and personally I'd take one over this version of the F-Body (I'd take a used C5-Z06 or maybe an Elise over either for the money)... but 'fast' is where the Pony Cars are strong.

The IS350 is a good looking luxurious and modestly fast car... but it doesn't play that well in this sandbox. Like the tag line from a Toyota commercial I saw years ago said "It LOOKS fast".

@ Dave k

Mid 12's? Are you kidding? The Corvette runs mid 12's. This will be much slower than the vette. I'd expect 13 even. The extra 500 pounds it's carrying around are going to slow it down considerably.

I definitely expect it to beat the 335, but not by more than .5 seconds.

Honestly I don't think there's ever been a production car that his 60 in 4.6 and the quarter in 12.5, It'd have to be doing 125 at the end of the quarter to make up for the slow trap time. Something like a 430 hp 2900 pound front wheel drive .

Maybe the past will indicate the future performance of the Camaro. (!)GENERALLY(!) speaking 1 second faster to 60 means 1 second faster quarter mile, baring traction issues.

An example of Chevy Tech:

1999 Chevrolet Corvette Hardtop 4.8 13.3
2001 Chevrolet Corvette C5-R 3.5 10.3
2001 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.6 13.0
2001 Chevrolet Corvette Coupe 4.8 13.1
2002 Chevrolet Corvette Z06 4.1 12.5
2003 Chevrolet Corvette (50th Anniversary) Manual, 4.9 13.4
2005 Chevrolet Corvette C6 4.2 12.5
1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 5.7 14.1
1996 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS 5.3 13.8
1998 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 5.2 13.7
1998 Chevrolet Camaro Z28 SS 5.2 13.6

BMW Tech:

2007 BMW 335i 4.9 13.6 (C&D Nov '06)
2007 BMW 335i 4.8 13.3 (Edmunds.com)
2007 BMW 335i 4.9 13.4 (Auto Week)
2002 BMW M5 4.8 13.3
2006 BMW M5 4.1 12.4 (R&T Feb '06)
2002 BMW M3 4.7 13.4

Hen Dodge vs. Buggati(for fun)
1996-2002 Viper Hennessey Venom 1000TT 2.3 9.52
2006 Veyron 2.3 10.8 (C&D Jan '06)

1973 Volkswagon Super Beetle Convertible 23.8 22.5
58 mph trap speed LOL

I am so proud of my fans for sticking up for my idea of bringing back the legendary camaro, it was my brainchild although unlike the asians is it fails i will not commit suicide ill just throw in a v10 or v12 or....

i am concerned that most of you feel that the quality is lacking in this car, i personally collected the piss tests for all my quality controll associates and had them tested for drug use so i would know that we are getting the best controll over quality money could buy. we also installed cameras in the changing rooms of all of our UAW workers to eliminate any missbehaviour by employees. and finally i had everyone take an aptitude test to see if they had the skills to do the job they where hired on to complete..

the results of all these tests and monitoring caused the camaro to be held back untill next year and in an unrelated topic we are hiring for all possitions and you can send me your resume or post a video on youtube showcasing any stupid human tricks you may be able to demonstrate.

we are an equal oportunity employer...

Those 1/4 mile times must be done by people who never been to a dragstrip before. I know a few people who have hit high 12s in STOCK 4th gen Camaros and Firebirds, and that's in the Memphis heat during the summer. 13.0-13.2 times are very common for those cars.

So if someone is running 13s in C5 or C6 Corvettes, they need to hang up the helmet and take up chess. A complete bonehead should be able to pilot a C6 Corvette to mid-12s. Someone who knows what the hell they're doing can do much better.

This new car is porky, but with the power it has on tap, I don't think 12s will be a problem.

Keep in mind that guys getting these times are JOURNALISTS, not necessarily decent drivers.

Dear GM:

Please fire UAW. Find honest workers to build cars. There is your $15 billion in savings. I work, as an engineer, at a foreign car company plant, and we do just fine. Our workers realize they do not deserve $35/hour to turn a bolt, push a button, or sweep the floor. However, we offer security, honest wages, medical benefits w/o premiums, etc. I am an engineer, and I make about $23/hour. I would love more, but for just starting out I think this is fair. I can support myself quite comfortably.

I hope my next car is a G8, Camaro, or CTS, but I will not buy one until the UAW stops sucking the life out of this country, breaks up, and realizes how selfish and ignorant they have been.

Times they are a-changin'

I have seen one in real life at last years LA Motorshow & don't think the car looks that great. Honestly, talking to people that were looking at the car there were not that many that found the car 'great' looking. I asked more than a few people their opinion & the general consensus was that it was 'ok'. Simply listening to conversations about the car gave the impression that the public is not bowled over by the Camaro. Add to this the current state of the economy, gas prices, & public perception regarding fire breathing V8's should be very worrisome to GM.

My own fearless prediction:

this car will go down in GM history as a collosal (sales) failure.

If an 05-06 GTO 3700 lb 400 hp LS2 can hit 12s, then I am sure a 422 hp LS3 3600 lb Camaro can hit high to mid 12s. The issue will be the same as the GTO though, wheel hop thanks to IRS. Hopefully bigger tires can fit on this unlike the GTO, otherwise that will be another downfall for the quarter.

Oh, and like JB said, journalists aren't the best drivers in the world. A C6 Z06 bone stock has gotten into the 10s on the quarter.

@Porsche Lover :

Those times are strange... some are pretty accurate and some are conservative.

-The LT1 Z28 times are pretty close (I ran as low as 13.9 stock but low 14's were typical for my typically bad launching).

-The LS1 Z28's are about 0.5 faster than the quoted times in my experience... low 13's were pretty typical.

-The C5 Vettes were typically listed as a couple tenths faster than the Z's, high 12's/low 13's.

-C6 vette's run mid 12's with less power (but also less weight) than this new Z... mid 12's should definitely be doable with this car stock (unless the IRS buggers up the launch).

I believe this Camaro will do quite well, it looks like nothing else out there (weither it's ugly or nice), you can't deny nothing looks similar to this. I personally think it looks great. To be honest, the economy lately has been running on leasing and financing so the final price won't matter to most people. I think this well sell quite well and it's pretty hard to match the Coolness factor of this car. Let's face it, there's more BMW's on the street and it's not really special any more.

I dont think the japanese car workers ethic all good either. Its not uncommon to hear of people die from over work at a japanese company. It recently happened to a very high up employee at toyota, while I dont like the uaw either i think its a better evil then overworked employees.

@ Dear GM:

The UAW isn't going anywhere. That band of thugs will probably take the American auto industry to its grave and hopefully go down with it. Like much of our country, the UAW is too short sighted to see the long term consequences of their actions.

As far as other auto factories in this country that are non-union (read: Japanese), their pay scale is about the same as the UAW. Those workers ARE far mor productive because they can be fired, but don't think for a second that their wages are substantially lower (if at all) than UAW workers. The japanese plants know that the can't pay 2/3 of union scale and not have the workers organize. The UAW has been trying to organize those plants for many years.

Journalists drive cars in stock form and don't abuse them when they're launched. This means they use street tires(huge difference here), they don't burn out the clutch to keep RPM's high, and they don't short shift and/or flat foot when changing gears. You can do all of this stuff and make your car faster but at the expense of longevity. That's why their times appear lower, they're not abusive.

Tires make a gigantic difference at the strip.

Who actually has a z28 without mods on it? Especially people that use them for drag racing. I've never seen any unmodified Camaros being run ragged at a drag strip. Only the collectors keep them stock and they're not going to put them through the abuse drag racing entails.

I say the Camaro will run about a 13 even. Possibly in the high high 12's if they're pretty lucky.

Since the GTO was referenced:

2004 Pontiac GTO LS1 5.3 13.8
2005 Pontiac GTO LS2 4.6 13.0 w/AT (GM Sales Literature)
2005 Pontiac GTO LS2 4.7 13.1 w/MT (GM Sales Literature)
2005 Pontiac GTO V8 w/6 Spd 4.8 13.3 (C&D Jan '05)

Things that run a 4.6 run about a 13 even. From all manufacturers.

Ford Tech:
2004 Ford Mustang Cobra SVT 4.5 12.9

3725 lbs.(05)
"*The curb weight for the SS is 3,900lbs." -Edmunds talking about the Camaro

That sounds high, but still. This will be no lightweight. Stick to the Vette for a real car.

Like I said, you can talk all you want, but I know a guy who had a ram air Firebird, BONE STOCK (and that includes the tires) that ran 12.82 at Memphis Motorsports Park. There have been others that have gotten those cars into the 12s on stock tires. And why would any Camaro owner keep a car stock? Maybe because they're fast already, and some people don't like to jack around with the warranty issues that could arise from their mods. On the other hand, I have a friend who did a head and cam package on a brand new GTO he bought. The car had 2000 miles on it when he voided the warranty on the engine. Some people care, some people don't.

And you can call some driving styles abusive, but guess what, they market these cars as speed demons, and many people will drive them at 10/10ths, and GM knows that. Of all of the durability gripes that you mentioned, the biggest one that 3rd and 4th gen F-body owners have complained about was the POS rear axle. The clutches and other parts for the most part have held up great.

Most people that I know that have these cars also use them as their daily drivers, so they all run street tires, because changing tires at the track is a pain, and no one in their right mind is going to DD a track tire, even if they're DOT legal, because they wear so fast.

Call it what you want, whether the journalists "take it easy" on these cars, or whether the guys just can't drive, but the reality is that they don't show what many of these cars are actual