It's already been revealed that Toyota and Subaru are collaborating on a new rear wheel drive coupe, which will be sold as both a Subaru and Toyota. Now, Inside Line claims to have even more info on the new coupes that are slated for a late 2011 release.
First up, although Subaru and Toyota are working together on the coupe, only the Subaru version will be sold worldwide. The Toyota badged coupe is going to only be sold in Japan. Mechanically both vehicles will be similar although exterior styling will be different for both of the coupes.
The basis for the new coupe will be Subaru's current 4WD system that will be modified to create a new rear wheel drive setup. Both models will be powered by Subaru's naturally aspirated 2.0L 4-cyl engine that will produce 220 horsepower and will be mated to the six-speed manual transmission from the Impreza STI. As you can tell most of the mechanicals are going to come from Subaru, so Toyota's role in the partnership will be product planning and quality control.
Toyota and Subaru have set the now dead Honda Integra Type R as the benchmark for the new coupe. The coupes are expected to start under $20,000 when they debut in late 2011.
Full Story: Inside Line
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Comments (37)
im buying one, no doubt
Posted by Cobaltssman | May 28, 2008 7:47 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 19:47
I'll take one
Posted by dracolnyte | May 28, 2008 7:55 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 19:55
"powered by Subaru's naturally aspirated 2.0L 4-cyl engine that will produce 220 horsepower"
Naturally aspirated 220 hp? So you are gonna have to wind it up higher than a teenage kids ticked out Honda Civic before you see any torque?
Do people here really want to see that in a Subaru?
Why not use one of their turbo motors and keep the car light weight and minimalistic to keep the price down.
Posted by Tim | May 28, 2008 8:15 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 20:15
2.0L...with 220hp, impressive but which would mean no torque. With the weight of AWD....riiiiight. I forecast 0-60 in the high 6 sec range if you're lucky.
Posted by vtfo0lio | May 28, 2008 9:00 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 21:00
can you read? rwd, nice forcast
Posted by vtfo0liocantread | May 28, 2008 9:59 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 21:59
If it's really under 20k, reliable, rwd and as fun to drive as an integra type r I'll buy one. Who wouldn't?
Even if it's as horrendously ugly as that preliminary artist's rendering (It's mostly the paint job) it'd still be an awesome deal.
For about the same price, the Cobalt SS will undoubtedly beat the pants off of it around a track. But eww fwd.
It's good to see the Genesis Coupe will have some competition.
Posted by Cheap Car Lover | May 28, 2008 10:12 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 22:12
i highly doubt this car will have 220hp when it comes out. i think automakers always overestimate how much hp their cars will have when the cars are in the early planning stages. i think something like 170-200 would be more realistic. maybe 220 in japan, but definitly not here in the states. but aside from that, i think the car looks really good in that rendering, and being rwd it will be a total blast to drive, im sure the drifters will be all over it. i think part of the reason subaru wont make it turbocharged is that its probly too close to a WRX at that point.
Posted by Charlie | May 28, 2008 10:19 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 22:19
Genesis Coupe, you've found your competition!
@CCL
As fun as a Type R isn't likely, few cars if any in it's price range could deliver the same driving experience. Sure it wasn't the fastest in a straight line but with a few mods you could run down an NSX at the track. With all the safety gizmos and stuff this car will be lucky to come in under 3000lbs, which will make it a bit less fun to toss around I'm sure.
Posted by Gary | May 28, 2008 10:22 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 22:22
its a boxer engine.........
do the research on what that is before you say it wont have torque .
Posted by macer1 | May 28, 2008 10:38 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 22:38
its a boxer engine.........
do the research on what that is before you say it wont have torque .
Posted by macer1 | May 28, 2008 10:39 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 22:39
A RWD Subie?
OK, I'll take mine in black with silver wheels.
I agree, put a turbo on it or blow it. Or you will have to rev the crap out of it to get the 220hp. Nice looking, but please stop (all manufacturers) with the bright primary colored cars.
Especially VW and Chrysler. I can understand red, but the yellow, orange, green and blue must stop. Looks like you got your car painted at IKEA.
Posted by Rich | May 28, 2008 10:41 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 22:41
The "normally aspirated" 2.0 Subaru boxer motor... doesn't exist.
It's the 2.0 boxer TURBO that's used by the wbx and other Subaru model flavors. The writer of this article has simply made a mistake.
If the car is LIGHTWEIGHT (under 3,200 pounds WITH the driver in it) then it has a chance of becoming something very special. Otherwise.......... it'll be nice and all... but.....
I LOVE WHINING !
Posted by ckv | May 28, 2008 10:42 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 22:42
love the car.
Increadibly stupid it is not 4x4.
They had a great great chance to bring a low cost Audi Quattro succcessor and they blew it.
And if it were a 4x4, they could have kocked-off a small Saab Sonnet successor as well....
stupid, stupid, stupid
Posted by lowest iq | May 28, 2008 10:45 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 22:45
Hopefully Hyundai will take notice and bring the price of their base, i4 turbo Genesis couple down. According to a salesperson at a local Hyundai dealer who already has both the production Genesis sedan and a test Genesis Coupe, the starting price with standard options for an i4 turbo Genesis Coupe will be $26,000. I think Hyundai is overestimating themselves with these kinds of prices.
Posted by Optimummind | May 28, 2008 10:47 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 22:47
@Optimummind:
Hyundai has already stated that the Turbo 4 Coupe will start at around $19K for the and go up to ~$27K for a fully loaded V6. The pricing is supposed to come in a couple grand under the Eclipse V6.
Most dealers don't know any more, and usually know less, than what you can find online.
Posted by Gary | May 28, 2008 10:56 PM
Posted on May 28, 2008 22:56
Hmmm, I wonder how much gas will be in 2011 with the falling dollar, inflation and out of control crude prices...$8, $9, $10 per gallon? I think a large percent of the US public will end up driving Nissan Versa/Honda Fit class of cars that are cheap and get 32-40mpg real world. Maybe the US, EU, Russia and China should just takeover the middle east and it's oil.
Posted by Michael83 | May 29, 2008 2:59 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 02:59
Keep it under 2,800 lbs and we'll have one heck of a fun car. All of you bitching about torque: you don't need much torque if you keep the fat off of the chassis. This thing looks way better than the Hyundai Genesis, even with the weird orange color.
Unfortunately with the current trend in gas prices, my main mode of transportation will be a 600cc sportbike. Looks like i won't be in the market for a car for 15+ years due to not putting many miles on my current car because of the bike/gas prices.
Posted by Dan | May 29, 2008 4:49 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 04:49
hell yeah i'm down. but i'd rather import the toyota one here to Australia. defiantly gonna be cool for drifters being RWD. will be interesting to see how this pans out. definately has to be 1000kg or under.
Posted by Ellimist | May 29, 2008 5:34 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 05:34
@ Gary
I don't image it'll be all that awesome either, and concur with your speculation. The article says it'll be compared with the type r.
Rwd will always be more fun, so in that sense it's competitive... I guess.
Posted by Cheap Car Lover | May 29, 2008 5:44 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 05:44
I can't see how this car will be under 2800lbs. My 04 Corolla is barely at that weight, and it doesn't have abs, active suspension, or rwd. (And in the states it is HIGHLY advisable you build it with active suspension or it will not receive a 5 star safety rating).
I'd put it at around 3000lbs if they have a good designer. And I agree that it'll probably be the EJ20T (for turbo) that goes into it. As far as NA based motors the last time the states saw one was 98(?), and that was in an Impreza. It appears that a 2.0L is still sold in Australia and makes roughly 150hp @ 6400 rpm and uses premium gas. So I'd expect it to be a turbo 2.0, of course they dropped that platform from the states a while back, and it may just be the NA EJ25 here.
As everyone knows I want to see a 22B successor. I don't know if this is it, but I can only hope it comes close. A coupe Subaru? One can only dream.
Posted by Brian | May 29, 2008 6:15 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 06:15
I guess I should feel lucky that gas prices don't really matter that much to me, an extra k or two per year on fuel for sporty driving is acceptible to me, but either way this is going to be an enthusiast car and with high 20's mpg fuel costs probably won't be that big a deal.
As a current type R owner, I think they need to set the benchmark a little higher, the car is fun, but at the expense of a rather poor and very noisey ride. The interior is also rather cheap unrefined for a 2001 year car.
I also don't think people should jump to conclusions on the state of the US econcomy in 2011 or assume gas will be much more expense in a couple years, rather uninformed thinking.
Posted by TheTruth | May 29, 2008 6:28 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 06:28
I guess I should feel lucky that gas prices don't really matter that much to me, an extra k or two per year on fuel for sporty driving is acceptible to me, but either way this is going to be an enthusiast car and with high 20's mpg fuel costs probably won't be that big a deal.
As a current type R owner, I think they need to set the benchmark a little higher, the car is fun, but at the expense of a rather poor and very noisey ride. The interior is also rather cheap unrefined for a 2001 year car.
I also don't think people should jump to conclusions on the state of the US econcomy in 2011 or assume gas will be much more expense in a couple years, rather uninformed thinking.
Posted by TheTruth | May 29, 2008 6:28 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 06:28
I'm laughing at all the people complaining that you'll have to rev this engine high to get power/torque. It's sad that people know so little about really using their engines anymore. If this really worries you, just get a slushbox and let the computers dial in the power for you.
Meanwhile, what this report says about this car sounds interesting. I'd assume that in converting Subaru's 4wd system to RWD, the option to add 4wd to later models will be there. The potential for a lighter, 4wd turbo'ed Subbie coupe is enticing.
Posted by kw | May 29, 2008 6:50 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 06:50
As long as the compression ratio is high, its light and all the other modern day dowackys like a vtech type design you can get decent power from a na engine. although a turbo option would be nice..
Posted by Jono | May 29, 2008 8:20 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 08:20
As long as the compression ratio is high, its light and all the other modern day dowackys like a vtech type design you can get decent power from a na engine. although a turbo option would be nice..
Posted by Jono | May 29, 2008 8:21 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 08:21
As long as the compression ratio is high, its light and all the other modern day dowackys like a vtech type design you can get decent power from a na engine. although a turbo option would be nice..
Posted by Jono | May 29, 2008 8:22 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 08:22
@Jono:
It's VTEC not VTECH. VTECH makes electronics like cordless phones. Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control.
Posted by Gary | May 29, 2008 10:45 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 10:45
All I have to say is, the more SMALL RWD/AWD coupes the better. Preferably 4 cylinder turbos.
Posted by gm0n3y | May 29, 2008 10:52 AM
Posted on May 29, 2008 10:52
They will sell a ton of cars if the actual model resembles this image. I kind of reminds me of a scaled down Honda Accord two door. The Japanese makers often use US design sites to produce cars like this model. They really know what the public likes and create excitement from eager buyers. What the heck can't the US makers do the same?!!
Posted by John C | May 29, 2008 5:18 PM
Posted on May 29, 2008 17:18
From everything I have read on this, it is expected to be on a 103" wheelbase and in the 2800lb range.
Posted by Legacy Owner | May 29, 2008 7:28 PM
Posted on May 29, 2008 19:28
I love the chronic whining on this site. If a car was perfect you'd complain that it's too perfect.
Anydangway, this car makes a lot of sense to me. No turbo = cheaper. No AWD = cheaper. Hence the less than $20k price tag. And remember, this is basically a AE86 successor. The crowd of people that loved the AE86 will love this because they won't have to go to the trouble of swapping in a 4AG 20 valve or S/C to get some power. A new base model 132hp Corolla starts at $15k... so who wouldn't pay an extra $4-5k for for 220hp, 6-speed manual with RWD... AND Toyota quality. You'd be stupid to pass this up.
Posted by Ravo | May 29, 2008 11:41 PM
Posted on May 29, 2008 23:41
add 4WD and 2k and you have Audi Quatro re-incarnation. Now thats a deal! Not a successor to some lame Toyota with 2 doors.
Posted by SARS | May 30, 2008 2:41 AM
Posted on May 30, 2008 02:41
The AE86 wasn't lame. It was just underpowered. Real on-road sports cars have rwd, 2 doors, and 2 seats.
If someone want's a hatchback 4 door with 4wd and turbo power go buy another car, that's wha tthe wrx is for.
No one makes a small N/a rwd 2 seat car anymore. But that's what I want.
Posted by Cheap Car Lover | May 30, 2008 8:44 AM
Posted on May 30, 2008 08:44
@Ravo
I totally agree. I'd pay $4-5k more just for RWD and 175hp w/ 6spd, let alone 220. For this kind of car, the cheaper the better (as long as quality is still good). I'll add a turbo if I want, an aftermarket stereo, maybe even some rims. I don't need leather, a multi-disc changer (who uses CDs nowadays?), or any of that crap, make it all optional (although I do want AC).
Posted by gm0n3y | May 30, 2008 1:00 PM
Posted on May 30, 2008 13:00
Id love to see this car with several engine options like the na motor that used to come in the imprezza the one that made like 150 or hp. Give us some nice cheap base car that is still relativly fun to drive and make a hopped up version with a boat load more power and a bunch of weight taken off. Kinda like the evo mr that way you can have a cheaper car that will sell more and a fast car that people can refrence.
Posted by unknown | May 30, 2008 2:13 PM
Posted on May 30, 2008 14:13
I wonder if the reason for no turbo/AWD version is to prevent it from eating up WRX sales.
Even so... it's a nice looking car and could be a solid commuter choice if it gets decent mileage. I also wonder if they'll be able to push a big Overdrive 6th with the boxer. They have torque but that might be asking a bit too much unless the weight is quite a bit below 3k.
Posted by Dave K | June 2, 2008 9:16 AM
Posted on June 2, 2008 09:16
@michael183/28 May
We tried that starting with IRAQ and look where it got us.
Posted by R.D.M. | June 3, 2008 1:07 PM
Posted on June 3, 2008 13:07