Wow, direct competetion for the Viper. Although the engine probably won't be as large as the Vipers, it'll rev like crazy. Imagine the sound of a V10 screaming all the way to 9000rpm....

Where the hell is the Supra?

Where are all the greenies whining about the V10? If this was an american car there would be 100 messages about how V10's are gas pigs and everyone should drive a peeous.

I really hope they don't call it NSX unless they change their minds and make it MR... otherwise it just wouldn't be an NSX.

Either way it should be an impressive car especially if the v10 is based off of this engine...
RA005E

Displacement 3.0 litres
Configuration V10 naturally aspirated
Vee angle 90 degrees
Maximum power Over 900 ps
Maximum revs Over 18,500 rpm

(source)

I dont think they would use an F1 engine lol.

"WareWolF: Where are all the greenies whining about the V10? If this was an american car there would be 100 messages about how V10's are gas pigs and everyone should drive a peeous."

The thing is, Honda cars are always fuel effecient. The other thing that disgusts sports car lovers is that the Viper uses an 8.4L engine the has a low state of tune (as in low HP/Liter). Rant about torque all you want but most people who can afford sports cars seem to like high-winding race type engines with a progressive power band over 500lb-ft @ 1,900rpm.

And actually, race V-10's (not the Vipers hick engine) develop almost V-12 power while being lighter and almost as effecient as a V-8.

"8.4L engine the has a low state of tune (as in low HP/Liter"

How do you get the engine´s power/weight ratio, fuel consumption, reliability and quality-vs-price from a simple "HP/Liter"??

@Pete
You don't.

" Kevin: I dont think they would use an F1 engine lol."

That's why I said based on it... quite a few high end road going sports cars get their technology from F1.

For those of you wondering about fuel economy... from the previous article:
"Engineers reportedly set a goal for the new car to achieve a 10.0 km/l rating (equal to 23.5 mpg) rating in Japan's standard 10.15-mode fuel cycle."

"How do you get the engine´s power/weight ratio, fuel consumption, reliability and quality-vs-price from a simple "HP/Liter"??"

I wasn't talking about any of those points, aside from fuel effeciency. And at 8.4L with those huge combustion chambers, it will only see reasonable milage on the freeway in it's overdriven (not top speed) 6th gear, similar to the Z06. They're both blue-collar "value" sports cars, so of course they deliver unmatched performance stats for the dollar. But that's all they are is stats. They don't deliver the finely honed drving experience of a Porsche (or the old NSX) that makes you feel at one with the machine.
I mean the Viper doesn't even have a rear-mounted trans and the Corvette still uses leaf springs (which most track enthusiasts convert to coilovers). Not to mention the attrocious interiors that belong in a rental car. The situation is similar in all domestics vs. imports.

Which would you take for free with maintenance paid. But you had to drive it everyday for 60 months:

1. Dodge Viper or Porsche 911 Carrera S
2. Cadillac CTS or BMW 550i
3. Dodge Avenger or Honda Accord
4. Chevy Cobalt SS or Honda Civic Si
5. Ford Focus or Civic LX

1.911
2.550i
3.Accord
4.Civic Si
5.Civic LX

I'm pretty sure anyone would pick a car that's $20k more expensive if they were getting it for free (looking at Noya's retarded 550i/CTS comparison).

At least the avenger offers all-wheel-drive. Accord doesn't. (Not saying i'd choose the avenger, but to a lot of people it could be a big deciding factor)

The new Cobalt SS has the turbo 2.0L Ecotec. That power goes a long way, sometimes farther than just a Honda interior (which is better quality no doubt, but feels like a spaceship).

I hate to rain on everyone's parade, but a 500hp engine is going to suck gas like an alcoholic at octoberfest. I don't care who makes it. It is simply the conversion of the potential energy in the fuel into kinetic energy at roughly 20% efficiency for internal combustion engines. The rest is converted mostly to heat and some mechanical losses. Higher bhp/liter just means you make an engine burn more fuel. That's why turbos and superchargers give you higher bhp/liter. Higher RPMs will also do it.

As to Honda's being more fuel efficient, I agree. But there's a reason. They make small, high revving engines by design. Notice I didn't say powerful.

Torque = (HP X 5252)/RPM (simplified)

As you can see, horsepower and torque are intimately related. You cannot have one without the other. Horsepower is a function of torque at a certain RPM. If one is low, so is the other and vice versa.

If you look a torque curve generated by a dyno, the graph with the most area under the torque curve will have the higher total acceleration potential. A high, flat torque curve has a lot of area under it and that's why it's desireable for acceleration and responsiveness.

I for one hope this car gets a torquey V10 and is lightweight, otherwise the Viper is going to walk away from it.

Greg in my opinion you are wrong, and you smell like cheese.so there you are keep your cobalt or your cts and ill keep my honda and you bette rpray i dont challenge you to a endurence race because you will need a miricle to run one of your choices that long.

@Kell:

I know that equation has been around for a long but I don't think it always work like that. Perhaps in engines with a standard valve train, but not all engines

Take the Honda B Series for example. 1.8 non-VTEC has an almost identical torque curve as the 1.8 VTEC but has significantly less horsepower, somewhere along the lines of 70 hp less.

Additional mileage can also be gained from cylinder management technologies, timing adjustments, etc from one engine to another of the same size. So just because it's a V10 doesn't mean it will get poor mileage.

@Noya
I'm so tired of hearing about the leaf springs, GM does not use leaf springs on most of their other cars. Are you so ignorant that you assume that they would put the coilovers on all their other cars, and put crappy (in your mind) leaf springs, on their top of the line sports car? If the coilovers were so much better.

The only disadvantage to the leaf spring on the corvette is the cost. The only reason they switch the leaf spring out on the track, is because leaf springs are not as easily adjustable. For a road car that does not matter. The advantages of the leaf spring far outweigh the disadvantages.

The displacement of the engine has little to do with the efficiency of the car. The gearing and weight of the car, has much more to do with it. You need to learn more about the pushrod engine vs the ohc engine, before you start trying to compare efficiency based simply on displacement.

Finely honed blah blah blah. That is subjective at best. At worst it is the typical mindless babble that comes from those who try to justify their overley expensive car when compared to 1 that is just as good or better but costs half as much.

Viper
cts
accord
si
euro focus

@kell
I am sorry to dissapoint you.
Mazda RX8 has power and low torque due to his rotary engine.It revs at 10.000 rpm limited.
They are connected but not that close.You can have bigger torque than the horsepower also.
Dunno why the americans when they see a v10 dohc or something like that, they are thinking always on fuel consumption.It's not true.

Acura's car will be no where near as fast as a viper. Acura's is a GT and the viper is a sports car.

Stop whining about the interiors of sports cars. It's not supposed to be a Lexus or Cadillac. ITS A SPORTS CAR! It's built to go fast as a a priority, not be a a luxury cruiser GT.

@mf

you would choose a viper over a 911?? you must not care about build quality or racing pedegree, history, reliability, style, or the fact that it has 4 seats... you must be a single man that needs attention so badly that you will buy a yellow viper and straight pipe the exhaust so it sounds tough. your a poser and when your dodge breaks down you can be comforted in the fact that dodges are easy to fix maby there are some parts on the neon that can fit the viper?

Caddilac CTS is a nice looking auto but a bmw 550i if FILTY... i suppose you like jaguars and high end buics aswell?

@dennisil

Build quality of the 911 vs the viper, like you base your assumption on anything more than your bias for german vehicles. Viper drivers are few and far between, in comparison to the many doctors and lawyers who cruise around in their 911s and never drive them over 70mph. You want to talk about posers, the 911 is the ultimate posers car. The viper is not a car a poser would drive, because you sacrifice too much to drive it. You actually have to love to drive the car, rather than buying the car just to look good in it.

A sportscar does not need 4 seats. Maybe there will be some parts on the beetle. To fix the porsche when it breaks down.

The cts is smaller and more nimble than the 5 series, if the choice had been between the 3 series and the cts, I would pick the 3 series. I don't need a large car because I don't drive that far to work. a 550 vs cts is a bogus comparison anyway. No one would ever cross shop those 2 cars.

Just for the record HP is derived from torque on all dynos.

Really Kell... Sorry if the viper cannot make a nice flat torque curve throughout the rpm range. In a race IT DOESNT MATTER how much torque you have down low because in a car that is constantly going to be driven past 6 k doesnt need torque down at 3k.... understand ?. Id much rather have power all the way up the band instead of that power petering off at 4.5 k. The viper no matter what will not walk all over the nsx, because the minute you put the both on the track you will see the difference, because the viper will be far behind. Ive never been in a race where my tack has been lower then 5k, and I like to keep it above there.
MF: Man the viper is not a true drivers car, its an expensive floppy hippopotmus, uncontrolled and annoying, and it has about the same finesse on the track as well. If thats what you call a "drivers car" then you must be from a different planet.

Mike:

Do Vipers not run at your local track, does it also serve as parking lot after the cone are removed?

On the track where I live Viper's are pretty damn fast and many are showroom stock with drivers I'll call average. Your whippy NXS does not have a flat torque curve or power band while the Viper does. I track my car rather frequently and you are in denial about the agility of these beast. They also make good power from 2000 RPM to red line. They take corners as about fast as my FD and pull like mad on the straights.

No stock NXS to date could carry that much speed into a corner so to imply that the NXS has traditional been better handle car is not a fact. This isn't just my opinion research it. Maybe the new one will be change that.

On topic at least they're sticking with a non-turbo engine.

Ahhh, just as I've always suspected...

The "H" on the hood stands for "Holier than thou"

So the "A" on the hood must mean

"As long as you don't confuse me with the facts, my mind is made up"

@mike
In a race IT DOESNT MATTER how much torque you have down low because in a car that is constantly going to be driven past 6 k doesnt need torque down at 3k....

That statement means you have never driven on a race track. You do need power lower in the rpms yes most f1 and german cars whoes engines are based of f1 tech dont make that power down low but still seem to be fast, just like hondas if you stick 4.22 gearing in a car with little torque your going to need to wind it up a bit to compensate. The viper v10 the corvette v8 and the gt v8 are all very potent engines down low and when your coming off a corner you want all the power you can get because you will be at 3k rpm.
German and asian cars with dohc tend to have larger intake ports which allows them to flow lots of air but the big draw back is that it kills intake velocity which reduces the amount of power that can be made in the lower part of the rpm band and because of that they need to add larger numerical gears so the car is driveable. If you took a honda vtec 1.8 and stuck the same gears on it that a viper has youll never get moving because they car wont make enough power down low. That math on how hp is derived is how all dynos in the world operate there is no diffrence they all use that math.
ps go to a race where they race cars like these and youll notice one thing the vipers and vettes tend to be in 1st place.

Rx7 guy man, are you dillusional ? a viper...... handle better than an NSX ??? hahahaha, ur a funney guy. And in fact go look at the engine curve of the nsx it has a quite flat torque curve thank you very much. Also anyone putting the viper on the edge is quite mad, because there is a fine line of control and none at all. I dont know how in the hell you might have came to the conclusion that a viper can carry more speed into a corner than say an NSX-R seriously man where are you getting those "facts" from the dodge website ?.

Unkown: Any experienced driver will have the ability to keep their car in the high rpms, no matter what corner they are going around. And obviously if you geared a 1.8 vtec the same as the viper it wouldnt move. The single reason why vipers and vettes would ever be in first place at the track is because they have a HUGE hp advantage.

@mike
the thing is they dont. Ive been in plenty of race cars and have had enough track time to know how a car reacts on the race track. Taking a turn your car will loose speed and you have 2 options in a rwd car you can down shift which may cause your rear tires to lock and create a oversteer problem or you can ride it though in which case you wont go as fast but dont risk the problem of oversteer. I have only seen 1 nsx on a race track and it was a race car plain and simple but it was one of the slowest cars running that day. My mustang was running a good 5 seconds faster then that car and my car was stock at the time.

Your mustang........ was faster than a race stripped NSX. Im not even gonna argue with you anymore. This is pathetic, you honestly beleive your mustang.......... could beat an a stripped NSX. Was the guy driving it a 2 year old ?. Mustangs dont handle worth a bag of sh|t, and they never will.

I never said my car was faster but thats my point people who buy cars like that dont drive them fast. Btw dont make judgements about cars before youve ever seen them I know many people with cars that people would call slow beat cars with far more power and capable suspensions. I really think you need to stop reading car and driver or stop watching top gear and go to a race for yourself to see how some of these cars really handle. Btw I do own a 3000gt vr4 and owned a jag before that, it really just bothers me how people like you go oh its not made in japan must be a piece of crap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad2T14nIwEs Ya I mean all mustangs are soo slow that supras and corvettes just get passed

I got my TL up to 125 today on the way to a meeting i was running late for and guise what i made up the time and was early for the meeting... thank you santa for the X50 passport for christmas.

Unknown: Well why would you even bring that into the argument, the skill of the driver doesnt make or break a car, it doesnt change the car. Im not the type of person to say "oh its not japanese its garbage" but you gotta sit down and think about it. Because im sorry but a mustang is not a car which handles good, the new one is even worse than the previous version. And thinking about that, there arent many good handling american cars. I like cars from every part of the world, however alot less from north america.

On the track...

Viper vs. NSX? Mustang vs. NSX? Are you on crack? In my life time, I have owned 5 mustangs (all fox-body), 2 corvettes, 1 viper and 1 NSX. With the exception of one of the mustangs (auto-vert), they've all been to the tracks (VIR, Mid-Ohio, Putnam...).

Without a doubt, the NSX is by far and away the best handling and lowest lap time car I've owned. The C5 vette was a distant second.

The mustangs and the viper were so bad on the track it was funny.

Can anyone say snap oversteer?