Now if they can get rid of the whole crapillac line, the world would be a better place!!!!

Wow.

The mental value of FPs on this site never cease to amaze me.

CtK wtf are you talking about?? Cadillac is one of the very best Makes in the US.

"The declining premium luxury sedan market is partly to blame for the decision"

I'd say. For Cadillace anyway. The premium luxury sedan market seems to be quite healthy when you look at sales of Audi and BMW. Maybe Cadillac is yet to figure out buyers of these cars like something more than shag carpet and cheap plastic interiors.

"The declining premium luxury sedan market is partly to blame for the decision"

I'd say. For Cadillac anyway. The premium luxury sedan market seems to be quite healthy when you look at sales of Audi and BMW. Maybe Cadillac is yet to figure out buyers of these cars like something more than shag carpet and cheap plastic interiors.

Saying it's one of the best US brands doesn't hold a whole lot of water these days. Just means they're on top of the mountain of crappy cars my country is producing....

@ Kevin

ROTFL....but it's very true!

GM should have never changed the look of Cadillac in the first place. This caused a huge brand loyality shift in the older crowd because GM basically told the older generation to shove off.

I am part of the younger crowd and I still don't like the way Caddy's look. The older classic shape was more mature and stately than this edgy look.

Ford didn't try to shove the older crowd out of the Lincoln and there cars still look stately (for limos, etc)

Unfortunately GM has too many nameplates that mean nothing and one that use to mean something. There was an old saying back in the day which went something like this:

"You start off with a Chevy and grow into a Caddy"

The problem with older crowds, Andrew, is that eventually they die and/or stop buying cars. An example is my step-granddad: "The 2000 Deville is the best Cadillac ever made." And he has not bought another car. The thing is that towards the end of a persons life its almost predictable that they become set in their ways. And my step-granddads neighbors are more confirmation: not one new car amongst any of them in the last 8 years.

You have to switch your style up every once in a while to try and gain a new audience: the older audience only lasts so long. And I love how you claim to be a young person, Andrew, but yet your refer to past times long gone as "back in the day."

And no one has said "You start off with a Chevy and grow into a Caddy" since dealers stopped saying it decades ago. It was a dealer slogan, I know, I know some retired Chevy and Cadillac dealers.

As to this move by Cadillac altogether, I agree with it. The DTS is a horrible car compared to an S-Class's interior or 7 Series (the same segment), as is an STS to a 5 series or E Class. They barely were there by comparison. The only thing those cars has was size, and the hope that someone was brand loyal enough to buy a Cadillac that size. And I know someone will complain that "an interior is not all that there is to a car" or some such. Thats true, but the guts of the Mercedes and BMW in those categories were better anyway, and interiors DO matter. It is, after all, the part of the car you will be living with and sitting in.

But a DTS gas mileage being as poor as it was anyway, most people would rather of had an Escalade. And with the costs and mileages of large, premium sedans being so poor, I think the only reason buyers of large premium vehicles have not moved entirely over to SUVs is due to the S-Class and 7 Series grip on high technology. True performance enthusiasts know that vehicles that large are just too ungainly on a track, so they go for smaller vehicles like an M3 or S6.

AAARGH No!!!
How can I live without that sensuous styling and all those breakthroughs in handling, performance and build quality!

Andrew:

"GM should have never changed the look of Cadillac in the first place. This caused a huge brand loyality shift in the older crowd because GM basically told the older generation to shove off."

And that's exactly what they wanted to do. If GM didn't attract a younger market, the Caddy brand would eventually wither up an die because just a few years back it was seen as a brand that 'only retired people in florida buy'. It was a publicly stated strategy that they were trying to move away from the older markets.

This is simply a further progression of the strategy. GM would very happily piss off 1 older client at the prospect of gaining 50 or 100 younger customers. GM doesn't care.

There just isn't huge demand for large lofty sedans anymore, and certainly not 2 of them by the same manufacturer.

wow, I didn't realize they still made cars for my old grandfather to drive. so sad to see it won't be available for me to buy when I hit 70 years of age.

What I find most interesting is that people tend to hold onto the past for to long. The quality of American cars has been increasing to the point where at least Ford is knocking on the doors of Toyota.

Where as the reliability of Toyota vehicles has been decreasing a little bit over the past few years. Honda still tops the list, Toyota is slipping, Ford is right behind Toyota. The funny thing is the only German dealer in the top 5 or six was Mercedes. And even Mercedes is on a little bit of a decline.

BMW makes some nice cars but, they are not very reliable vehicles. The newer BMW's seem to be less reliable than the older ones. The 02 and newer 7 series are probably the worst BMW's on the road. Unless you are loaded and have an alternative means of transportation don't touch one.

Allen,
Well..... sonny.... I reckon I could be young at heart, ya know.... Way to make me feel one with the Earth :)

But honestly, We all know old people are going to die one day but the great thing about life is, there will be others to replace them. (Except for a short period in time thanks to President Bush).

The edgy look never sold me. In fact Acura started the edgy look also and I don't like it one bit. I was a die hard Acura owner with several generational models under my belt.

I went with a Mercedes Benz because it still looked classic but I regret to inform that Mercedes are terrible in the area of reliability and customer satisfaction/retention.

GM really needs to think about their next steps for this line of cars. In Europe they have a totally different line of cars based on their Saab platforms. Why they don't import them here is anyone's guess.

But then GM really needs to think about their entire line up of cars.

GM has Chevy and Pontiac. I understand one is suppose to be a performance line and the other a basic line, but then Toyota doesn't have a Toyota line and a TRD line.....

Make Pontiac a subset of Chevy. Make Buick a subset of Cadillac. Kill off the GMC line and put Saturn under Saab to import European models to the States.

It seems as if the older population is going to be forgotten completely in the Luxury segment as time goes by. Cadillac is going to end the DTS, Lincoln has ended the Town Car, That just leaves the Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis (not much life left in these either) and the Buick Lucerne. Not much of a choice for the old folks anymore. I do not know why everybody is so intent on abandoning this market, I know old people get older and eventually die, but they are replenished with new old people that need big old cushy cars. My father is 72 and drives a 2004 Lincoln Town Car, He does not seemed to be concerned that it is not of the highest technology, or that it cannot handle good or stop good, to him it looks good (somewhat formal) and is very comfortable and floats down the road. Most people in their seventies on up are not interested high tech, great handling luxury cars. My dad would be overwhelmed with all the gadgets in a BMW 7 Series or a Mercedes S Class. I would rather have him concentrate on driving the car then figuring out how to drive the car at his age. I know that everybody says that DTS and The Town car are in the same segment as the 7 Series and the S Class size wise, but there is no way you are going to get a car S-Class, 7 Series or an Audi for the same price as the Lincoln Town Car or Cadillac DTS. They may have cheaper interiors and such, but they can be had for $20,000-$30,000 less. I do not know why U.S. auto makers want to give up on the old folks segment, there are plenty of them and always will be. Maybe, we can just hand that segment over to Toyota as well, then they can make more Avalon’s.

It's good that the DTS is going to die. Cadilac needs to get out of the 'cheap luxury' market and leave that to Buick.

As for Lincoln... the guys at Ford are wishing they did what GM did with Cadilac years ago.

As for people who think the Town Car is so great... it isn't. It's a glorified taxicab. Most of the Town Cars in my area are "Airport Limos" or are the cheap stretch limos people get if they can't afford the more expensive limos.

Peter,

your taxi point has little validity. Using that logic then Mercedes and BMW's are not better than the Lincoln Town car. They are used as taxis also.

They use it as a cab because it is large and very comfortable to ride in.

Ask any limo owner why they use Town Cars and not Cadillacs? reliability. Lincoln is more dependable, and they rather not lose 300 dollars for a day at the dealership.

There was a time when Cadillac were very, very expensive, ridiculously so. You could order a Cadillac with prescription windshields. You could have coolers, gold stuff everywhere etc. A custom cadillac in the 50/60' was something great, even the younger guys would find it desirable.

I can't even stand the looks of the cadillacs for the last 20 years or more. They are among the ugliests cars on the road.

Cadillac should be American's Rolls-Royce. Ridiculously expensive, build like a swiss watch. Dealers should be treating people like they were in a resort, or something. Cadillacs should be exclusive, 50 grand and up at least. As it is, it is doomed to fail.

Elvis Presly had a famous Cadillac, as John Lennon had a Rolls-Royce. Now would, I don't know, Foo Fighters, be seen on a Cadillac STS? I doubt it.

Rappers are driving Escalades though.

True...lol. I don't know why though.

Town Car A Taxi Cab ? Come on, I have been to other parts of the world that use BMW and Mercedes as Taxi Cabs, Vinyl seats, hand crank windows, plastic interiors, these cars creak, moan and rattle with the best of them. There not all luxury cars. I went to Beirut, Lebanon about 4 years ago, 70 Percent of the vehicles there are Mercedes, BMW & Volvo, of that 70 Percent only 20 Percent are built as Luxury Cars, the others are stripped down, have vinyl seats, vinyl door panels, plastic interiors and are most commonly used as taxi cabs. As a matter of fact, Mercedes is the most common vehicle used as a Taxi Cab there and many other countries as well, just not in America. They do hold up well, but certainly nothing special to ride in. They are generally under powered, rattle a lot, and not that comfortable. A Town Car would be a blessing compared to these Taxi's. So I guess one could say that any car, including Mercedes could be a glorified Taxi.

RIP

"wes:
Rappers are driving Escalades though."

And you wonder why Cadillac is in trouble, Any time a vehicle is driven by one of those rapper/crappers, they degrade the whole product line.

That's why one of those British car makers sued one of them for wanting to use their car in a video!

LOL Andrew.... now we know what happened to Cadillac.

^ so as Basketball and football star LOL. I wonder if OJ has a Escalade hahahaha

seriously, I haven't seen one single STS or DTS souped up and be "bling bling". The driver are mostly all middle age people. Plus, the same 2006 model look just like the 1996 model.

Who would want to buy it?

all u guys talk about is how crappy cadillac is compared to merc,bmw,lexus,infinity,audi and why audi the best looking piece of sh$ts in the class reliability please , everything u guys talk about is better in those cars is exactly what they are failing in lets go electronic problems(audi,bmw) reliability(bmw,merc,audi) resale(audi) ohh and acura please the new accord has more horses then the tl and is bigger then the rl . i own a infinty(05 Q45) and its a pos with bad fit and finish. Im done with them im going with the new CTS awd when it becomes avail. or lexus Ls460 used next yr. and dont get mad at the 398 pound athlete because he doesn,t want to drive a honda pilot, or toyota highlander . if u made 20 mil a yr u wouldn't be u buy a escalade . OHH AND FOR THE RECORD WE RAPPER AND ATHLETES DONT BUY NEW CARS WE BUY 78 IMPALAS and cadillacs and 06 Rolls royces and bentleys not sts,dts only escalades

all u guys talk about is how crappy cadillac is compared to merc,bmw,lexus,infinity,audi and why audi the best looking piece of sh$ts in the class reliability please , everything u guys talk about is better in those cars is exactly what they are failing in lets go electronic problems(audi,bmw) reliability(bmw,merc,audi) resale(audi) ohh and acura please the new accord has more horses then the tl and is bigger then the rl . i own a infinty(05 Q45) and its a pos with bad fit and finish. Im done with them im going with the new CTS awd when it becomes avail. or lexus Ls460 used next yr. and dont get mad at the 398 pound athlete because he doesn,t want to drive a honda pilot, or toyota highlander . if u made 20 mil a yr u wouldn't be u buy a escalade . OHH AND FOR THE RECORD WE RAPPER AND ATHLETES DONT BUY NEW CARS WE BUY 78 IMPALAS and cadillacs and 06 Rolls royces and bentleys not sts,dts only escalades

Wes: Lincoln Town Cars are used as limos and airport limos because they're they're cheap to buy (for a luxury car), cheap to run and share their outdated powertrain with the Crown Vic and Grand Marquis. Ford's own Duratech 35 makes more power than the V8 in the Town Car for crying out loud!

"Being cheap" is not a hallmark of a true luxury brand. Do people buy Mercedes, BMW, Lexus or Infinity because it's cheap?

Orzic: I didn't say 'taxicab', I said it is a 'glorified taxicab'... meaning it's just a stretched Crown Vic, with the same outdated powertrain, mildly different styling, some added sound deadening and an air suspension. And they've even moved production to the same assembly plant as the Crown Vic. As for Mercedes cars being used as Taxi's in other countries... I know that. In the past, it usually was something like an E-class with a 4 cylinder Diesel. But what those Mercedes Taxis are to the more luxurious Mercedes models is what the Crown Vic is to the Town Car... except that the Town Car has consistantly had lower tech power trains and has been updated less frequently over the years compared to the Mercedes.

It wouldn't be so bad if Ford gave the Town Car some additional uniqueness... like an engine with 4 valves per cylinder, for example.

Both Lincoln and Cadilac need to move more up-market if they're to be true luxury brands.

There's no point in Cadilac being a higher volume luxury brand when GM already has Buick.

And theres no point in Lincoln being a higher volume luxury brand when Ford *should be* using Mercury to fill that niche.

I read once recently that the Lincoln Town Car was Lincoln's 'flagship' model. What a laugh. Their flagship has a V8 powertrain that puts out less power than the competition's V6 engines. 4 speed automatic when all of the competition has 5, 6 or 7 speed autos.

The Town Car as it is today competes well with cars from the early 1990s. If it wasn't for the fleet sales and the fully amortized tooling, this car would be completely dead.

oh god,

so you are a rapper and an athlete? Just curios, what do you do?

I'm not going to knock you Peter, but there's a lot of things that must be considered. The Ford 3.5L DOHC V6 is not entirely more powerful than the 4.6L SOHC V8. They detune the V8 in the Crown Vics for some retarded reason. Look at the same V8 in the Town Car. The V6 still puts out 21 more HP, true. But it also produces 42 LESS ft-lb of torque. However, even the detuned 4.6L in the Crown Vics produces lots of torque, more than the V6, and both 4.6Ls have a broader power curve.

The V6 is more efficient, and for its displacement it does much better than the V8. But you argued that the V6 is more powerful, when that fact is very debateable (thanks Ford). If they were to put the V6 in a heavy Crown Vic/Town Car, and combine it with a low-tech but durable 4-speed auto, it would get almost as bad gas mileage as the V8, and it would seem underpowered off the line. The V6 and CVT or 6-speed auto combinations are PERFECT for the 500 lb lighter sedan they put it in.

Also you say that Ford should add uniqueness by putting in 4 valves per cylinder. Well, it isn't unique at all! It's done all the time. The Northstar, for example. Making the 4.6L into a DOHC 32-valve engine might make it a little more powerful, but there's two things to keep in mind: It won't help fuel economy, and it WILL make a higher-maintenence, less reliable engine. The reason they love using it for Taxis is because the 16-valve 4.6L is highly reliable and can withstand the daily abuse for many many miles.

Oh, and so you don't think I'm defending Ford - I don't really like Ford. I don't like many of their engines. I don't like most of their cars.

An interesting observation regarding HP ratings: My mechanic recently picked up a good deal (cost wise at least) on a V6 Jag, one of those silly X-types. If you look at the HP ratings, it would seem that it is more powerful than his Grand Prix 3800. If you look at torque as well, it seems like a more even match. However, in reality, the Grand Prix is significantly faster. It also gets better mileage, and on regular gas. The Jag/Ford/whatever requires premium fuel.

While Cadillac has made some major changes at the behest of General Motors in the past, it does not detract from the brand to change marketing dynamics. Cadillac has not won Car of the Year in a very long time. The fact that they recently have done so with the 2008 CTS testifies to what they are trying to do with a brand that was cemented in the minds of almost all American car buyers for nearly a century.
While alienating the older purchaser with the retirement of larger cars like the DeVille, many of these customers have remained loyal to Cadillac, despite the changes, and found that these newer autos with their updating featurings help bring them up to date in many ways (even though these newer gadgets aren't in the DTS, DeVille replacement).
I believe that Cadillac should have retained at lease one large, squishy, cushy 6 seater and prodded the other markets with the BlingKing Escalade, the CTS and the XLR to be certain of revenues. To move from your foundation can create instability.
But, then again, Cadillac is GM. And GM is GOD (in their own minds). I sell Cadillacs new and used and find them to be excellent cars. The easiest Cadillac to sell? A used 1998 Deville.