I can already hear the "buy america" crowd snickering that a Mustang could beat this thing in a drag.

So let me start by saying, first, when was the last time a Mustang sold out this quick? And second, this thing would kill all but the best Mustangs in the corners, and those lucky enough to have a Cobra know that the only saving grace of those Mustangs would be the ability to pull out of the corner with more HP available.

You know, this thing sold in Japan, which is a pretty closed market. Who gives a damn how many or how fast they sold!!!!

Of course it sold fast.. Look at it,
looks RICED out from the inside out.

i guess the characters of cars are decided by market culture and traffic patterns.

as japan has way more twist moutain roads civic RR might just be perfect, whereas in us there's endless interstate highways for mustang.

so there's no need to bash either cars. in the end it all come to popularity to decide if a car is good or not.

AVIS bought 300 Mustangs in 10 minutes

Cherie, ur just jealous that the Civic is faster, handles AND looks better than your POS. What do u drive again? A Gremlin or Geo Metro? I Forgot

Ya, it's more riced out than ur mama can handle.

Cherie, ur just jealous that the Civic is faster, handles AND looks better than your POS. What do u drive again? A Gremlin or Geo Metro? I Forgot

Ya, it's more riced out than ur mama can handle.

2008 mustang gt 0-60 is 5.1 seconds. Sure it uses more gas, but thats half a second faster. I think 30-40k is way too much to pay for a civic. My old hatch was like 7k new in 1991. It had plenty of power and handling for a fraction of the price. Does anyone know if this thing comes in a coupe or a hatch?

Mustangs may be fast but they never make to the finish line.
Fords are built to fail . Made in the usa , built by pissed-off workers !

Woudn't it just be better to buy a S2000 Honda

S2000 is FR, the civic is FF. And i think the civic is shorter.

Car looks badass, too bad is a (extremely) limited series already sold out.

So let me start by saying, first, when was the last time a Mustang sold out this quick?

GT500KR.

i presume it's still a front wheel drive car?
if so, thats a real pity. 240hp being put though wheels youre meant to steer with could cause problems, plus there are the usual FWD handling issues to deal with
al in all it looks like a poor man's impreza/evo to me

So many ignorant posts here by people who really do not know what they are talking about.

I can honestly say Allen, your an idiot. Your post is just as much unfounded as it is inaccurate. Do your research before posting such tripe anywhere....... There were many many Ford Mustang limited editions that released and were bought up just as fast as any other automaker in history. Its hard to explain to someone who is too narrow minded the history of automobiles so lets just say the following based on your initial post.

What you are saying is basically the "BEST" Honda Civic would be killed by the "BEST" of the Ford Mustang (which by the way is not the Cobra), and only by raw horsepower. So if a car corners better but comes in last in the race, makes it the better machine then? Thats perfectly logical thinking my friend. AHA! You beat me I win????

What an ultramaroon...

If the North American Civic would look this great, I would definitely buy it.

Look at our space aged ugly dashboard...*yuck* I would rather get a Pontiac G5

....and do not get me wrong I am sure its a peppy little rocket, but its still a small cramped econo car that now is overpriced

My friends Honda Accord EX it also has 240HP its just a 4 door sedan, hold on while I get out my red spray paint, a set of $800 seats, and steal the moldings of my neighbors Corolla. I will brb with a new limited edition (1 run only) Honda too.

=)

Tobad this car will loose most its value way before its time. How do you sell a $40k civic ,They will laugh and leave before you can tell them it only has 240hp . You can get a loaded G35 and you won't need to tell your friends you not a ultramaroon

Nice looking Civic. I gotta admit, for a car that will probably not surpass the S2000 in performance, it is a bit high priced. But, alas, if there's a market for it, and Honda sees it, why not? I am sure there are 300 people who will be very happy with this car, which I am sure was tweaked to really be a track monster! :)

An SRT-4 is faster and can handle as well as this thing for 10K less. What's the big deal?

Oh and last I checked other than the Honda Civic the rest of Honda quality has been middle of the pack at best over the last 3 years and is on par with GM and Ford.

From JD Power:
"Based on both design quality and production quality considerations, the study finds that automakers can vary widely in their performance on these two components. Brands with the fewest defects and malfunctions include BMW, Chrysler, Hyundai, Lexus, Porsche and Toyota. Brands with the fewest design problems include GMC, Hyundai, Jaguar, Lexus, Nissan and Porsche."

I don't see Honda in there anywhere.

The styling of his Civic is what makes it different.

Another thing you need to understand is the additional equipment installed on this vehicle. Has anyone priced out the parts to see if this car is worth 40k?

The new Evo X and Subaru STi look to be much better cars for the money. I dont see how this car is worth that much.

And I thought us American's were fools for Gimmiks and "Limited Edition" things...

I love Honda's but couldn't imagine paying 40K for a civic unless it had SH-AWD and the 2.3T from the RDX.

Andrew: The point is, its a civic. The value will never do anything but drop, and at that price, it'll drop fast.

Honda and Toyota (among others) don't make cars that become classics. They are disposable cars, you finance it, run it to the ground, finance another. Honestly, how many people boast about driving a 72 civic?

No matter how may options you toss in it, unless you find a sucker, you'll never get any return on it like you can American cars. I saw a 69 Yenko Camaro sell on ebay for over 150k.

At the end of the day its still a civic. I truely hope the 300 people that bought it enjoy them, they are definately paying for it.

Allen:

Too easy.

2003 Cobra

2007 GT500

Thats two.

And those were cars made in the thousands that were sold out on pre-orders before they hit the dealer lots, a more significant feat than a mere 300.

Whats with that rear light/tow hook light? They want us to think this is a F1 car running lights? What, does it blink?

Stupid light, I'd never drive a car with a light on its a** like this...

A Mustang GT while not only faster, also doesn't cost over $38,000. And thats just the MSRP. I'm sure the actual price was more than that. You have to be absolutely stupid to pay that kind of money for that kind of car. You can buy a used Supra Twin Turbo for that much.

Touche', honestjohn, touche'.

"it looks like a poor man's impreza/evo to me"

Except that it costs more than an STI or an Evo. And its slower.

So much bias.

Every heard of the Cobra R? That car will spank just about any car regularly discussed on this blog on a twisty road course and roast it in the 1/4 on the same day.

Have you actually gone for a ride in a 2003 Cobra?

I love how people compare a $10,000 mainstream V6 Mustang to a $40,000 BMW and cry about the difference in handling, then downplay the Cobra's capabilities any time someone brings it up.

We all know that the '03 Cobra has superior 0-60 and 1/4 than say, a BMW M3. But did you know that the '03 Cobra scores better on the skid pad in most cases (.87g vs .93g for one example) and equals or betters it in the slalom (both are mid to high 60s, it's close enough and varies depending on the source so I won't call a definite winner)? And it's widely accepted that the stock Goodyear Eagle F1 rubber on those cars is too hard in order to increase value with longer tire life resulting in poor traction and handling, yet even in stock form with factory rubber the handling is compared to the Corvette in almost every review, and the Corvette's handling is world renowned and proven.

Have you ever watched a 2003 Cobra tailgate and/or pass BMWs and Corvettes at an autocross event or a road course full of turns?

And you can get one whenever you want (it was a volume car not a limited-edition-you'll-never-see-one thing) for about $25,000 and with about $2000 in after market parts have nearly 500 HP to the wheels and handling that is equal too or better than a M series.

As for the rest of our cars that are made for the masses who don't want to spend more than $10,000 on a car? No comment. Just don't compare them to a $50,000 car. When BMW can produce a car with a MSRP of $10,000 that can still handle like a M3, then we will talk.

Umm, i think quite a few of you are all missing the point. You're bashing the car for "only" having 240 hp, but is a limited edition of a small compact car ideal for cornering work in mountain passes. And is not only horsepower, you have to take in account brakes, frame, suspension...

I think this car would beat hands down any bulky and heavy Mustang in mountain roads. Sure a Evo or Impreza would beat this version, but after all, they are based on rally cars and this Civic is only a souped up version of a conventional car.

The price is also high, but hey, is a limited edition, they always cost more. If you think is not worth it, don't buy it, is that simple.

Back to topic...

Allen:

SVT Cobra compares to BMWs and Corvettes in the handling department, and you're trying to say not even a Cobra could keep up with a FWD Civic in a turn...

Hopefully you see how absurd that is. As far as a regular Mustangs... well when people want a cheap car they aren't looking for independent rear, Brembos, etc... so I'd hope a $40,000 tuned anything could out handle a $14,000 base level Mustang built for the masses, the cheap bastages.

honestjohn:

Read "Iron First, Lead Foot" and then tell me that my car is made by angry workers who were pissed off and built my car with crap quality so it would break on me.

Vorador:

Do we even know it has extensive suspension work? A Civic is a economical commuter car, not a performance car. A normal base Civic is not going to do any better in a corner than a normal base Mustang.

If it has suspension and handling work, obviously that will be the case, as would be for any car (even though RWD or AWD would be far superior to FWD with the same improvements).

My question is, does it indeed have suspension and handling improvements over a regular Civic?

Or do people immediately and automatically assume that any car low on power or not RWD must be superior handling?

By the logic I see in many posts, a Geo would out handle this Civic because it has even less power and weight. How absurd is that?

BTW are any, if not all 300, of these sold out pre-orders on Ebay yet? Lol

Buying this car is probably like buying a Spice Girls album, you won't want to admit you did it in 3 years.

What's with all the Mustang banter, i don't want to knock them too hard, but when did they become the foundation of american performance and value?

No idea, I personally don't care for Mustangs, I just like the Terminators.

I think it's just the universal example used by pro-import anti-domestic supporters to symbolize any American car when there is a import vs. domestic dispute. That and Camaros.

I do think it's funny though how someone can say "x car sucks" like a Mustang for example, yet thats the car they are always gunning form, so it must not be THAT bad or they wouldn't waste their time going after them.

Got torque steer?

Well, at least the JDM counterparts actually come with some performance goodies.

Yes, at least we get the Honda Civic si sedan; but it should really come with a 4 pot brake option from the factory, all even the Nissan SER spec V comes with those.

And the s2k "club racer" is a joke too! I love hondas, but they arent going on a limb anymore, even in these enthusiasts versions anymore!

Okay, look people, it is a Honda product, just like Apple makes millions off of a overpriced MP3 player, there is a precieved reliability notion that people expect from Honda.

This cannot be said for Mitsubishi or Subaru or Ford.

I for one welcome this Civic. It saves me time from having to procure all of those parts and install them.

There are a few more tweaks I would need to do to it before it was ready for racing, but at least 50% of the job is done by Honda.

It is great there are some fanboys of Ford here. But this is not a Ford, this is a reliable made in Japan (not touch by disguntle americans) quality car.

What Chris said:
SVT Cobra compares to BMWs and Corvettes in the handling department, and you're trying to say not even a Cobra could keep up with a FWD Civic in a turn...

This is absolutely ridiculous, Chirs. Sorry, as much as I love Mustangs, and the Cobra in particular, the Mustang SVT Cobra has a live axle. This is an absurd. Ford should have changed this long time ago. This cars, with that weight distribution, begs for a lightweight, 5 point aluminum suspension. The problem is, if you brake it in a curb somewhere, the average onwner will not fix it right, and complain about "reliability". They should treat a sportscar with care, but I digress.

A live axle fights against you when hard cornering. The steering wheels gets a life of its own. The car simply won't turn, it will either spin, or kick you violently to the opposite side of the turn on corner exit (and then you face incoming traffic, or the wall...not pretty). If you're smart you let the steering wheel go a little and so you won't brake your hand.

Assuming you're on the right gear, you can lift it and throtle it up gently again, making the tyre loose grip momentarily and the regain it again, as you slide sideways through the turn.

Hard to find the limits this way, all you need to get in trouble is for one rear wheel to hit a small bump the other didn't and your in big trouble. Good luck going fast following any BMW or Corvetter doing that in real roads...

Granted, this is FUN, I love it, but this is not going fast, nor make you a better driver, appearances to the contrary. And this is not the proper behaviour of a SPORTS CAR, no matter what many say.

UH... LOOK MOM.. I HAVE THE BIGGEST ENGINE IN THE HOOD... DO YOU THINK ANYONE WILL NOTICE THE SIZE OF MY SMALL PENIS IN MY PANTS???

IF an SVT will beat a tuned civic on a track.. (not this civic...but a 200hp one... Honda Civic crv or crx) i will unplug my internet connection.If you want I can give you tones of clips with tiny little honda's with their small engine laping out BMW and other great cars.Best Motoring had a test drive in USA at your home.. and Not even a Single AMERICAN car ended in first 10 places on that desert abandoned track.And if Keiichi Tsuchiya can't drive... than no one can.It's like puting an Pickup to beat a truck on heavy cargo pulling.Another thing... where did you saw a race car with truck engine...? Nothing compares to Viper.. 9L v10 engine... LOL... You americans have your thing... always compensate small sizes inch things with huge engines and rims on the cars.Girls don;t care... just ask them... Size matters.. but not on your car

Sphere... dude... sorry but I have to invalidate your whole post:

Rear suspension: Multi-link independent system, cast iron upper control arm, aluminum lower control arm, aluminum spindle, gas-charged shock absorbers, coil spring, 26mm tubular stabilizer bar

It also has LSD and 4 channel ABS with traction control.

Enz0:

A tuned anything can beat anything. A stock SVT Cobra will eat a stock Civic and tie or beat a BMW on a track in the straight and the corners. A custom tuned race prepped Civic or Yugo could probably be built to spank a Enzo 'ring. What's your point?

All I intended to do was provide a neutral view and a specific example of a domestic car that I know inside out and negate the bias that a car automatically cant turn because it has a powerful engine or an American badge on it. Did it ever occur to you or anyone else here that a car can not only handle well, but have straight line power as well? Or that a car with massive straight line power can also handle?

The way people talk around here, you could take any car with 300 HP, subtract 150 HP from it and have a track queen that can spank a Evo, or if there is a review of a car with more than 300 HP people seem to think that the front wheels are welded straight.

Did somebody says the SRT-4 handles better than a Honda Civic? Are you stupid? Sure it is faster in a straight line, but that's about it. You guys argument is so weak. Kind of like saying "Do not buy a Ferrari. You can buy a car and mod it and it will be faster..." There are many cars that are faster than Ferrari cars. They are not the fastest, and yes, they are expensive. But there is something special in my heart (maybe others too) that make Ferrari special. Same thing for those think that Mugen has a special place in their heart.

Back to the topic. FR is always better than a FF, if everything else equals. That means weight, weight ratio, suspension setup, power, etc. So you cannot say a Mustang is better than a Civic because it is FR.

BTW the Cobra also doesn't have a 9L truck engine, it has a small 4.6L DOHC with an iron block with aluminum heads. All other Mustang engines use aluminum blocks, but the 03 Cobra intentionally uses iron for rigidity specifically for that cars power level. The 2JZ and 3SGTE are also iron *gasp* why might that be?

And yes, I try to be unbiased and neutral, even though it doesn't seem that way because I'm always stressing the virtues of some of the better American cars, but thats only because that seems to be all people like to pick on even before performance characteristics are known.

Most of my posts here are purely defensive in nature, defending American vehicles from bashing on the basis of horsepower and brand image.

But what you don't see me doing is what everyone here does with American cars: I don't post about a Civic or BMW and say "oh it can turn all day at 25 MPH but how fast can it go when the stoplight turns green? import piece of junk", etc.

I enjoy all cars, so it's irritating when a bunch of brand loyalists fanbois start talking and bashing when they don't know their mouth from their anus (as demonstrated above by the poster who thinks that the SVT Cobra has a solid axle, I bet you think it has push rods and a carburetor too).

Why are we even talking about this, using a platform built as an economical commuter car as a basis to judge what world class handling should be? Wow.... why doesn't McLauren and Ferrari use FWD sedans for their cars if it's so awesome?

Why would you comprimise handling versus horsepower? Why not have both in the same car? It is possible you know... Formula 1 Ferraris don't appear to have problems turning on a dime despite having, what is it, a 1500 HP V8?

Hehe, I especially like the comments about how an EVO or STI(or any other AWD car, fr that matter) can beat a FWD or RWD in slalom. You kids need to put down the keyboards and get your license for SCCA or NASA. Maybe take some classes and drive a little.

By the way, horsepower isn't everything, this Civic was also lightened all around, like any other Type R from Honda. 240hp in a 2500lb car imho is much better than 300hp in a 3500lb car(mustang for example). If you don't think so, then... well... not many people will take you seriously.

I don't really see the point in making this a limited edition Civic, it's rather easy to replicate. But Honda has never really produced a car that wasn't notable in it's class. The NSX trumped the Ferarri's and Lambo's not only on track, but in quality and upkeep. The Integra Type R was one of best handling FWD cars to ever be produced. Even the dead Prelude was touted as having better handling over it's contemporarys' (including the 300zx, MX6, and even the FD RX7).

The point is, Honda is made up of some rather smart engineers, and even smarter business people. Regardless of your guys opinion, they know what they're doing and they will produce a car that they deem fit. Keep in mind, they're a sucessful billion dollar car company, and you're just some guy with a computer. Criticize them all you want, you aren't in any position to tell them how to design, produce, or sell cars.

Will this be better than a Mazdaspeed 3? Probably. Will it have much better response and driving excitment than an SRT-4? Most likely. Will it outpace every other Civic Honda has ever sold? Chance are, it will. Is it meant to compete against grand tourers and AWD turbo sedans? Not really.

Chris, of course you were talking about a one-off Mustang that is not even made anymore. I should not even reply to your smart assed stupid post, but maybe someone else might be misled by your obtuseness.

Powered by the same supercharged 5.4 liter V-8 as in the GT supercar, the 2007 Shelby Mustang Cobra will replace the Mustang SVT Cobra as the ultimate ponycar. But unlike the old Cobra, the new Shelby won't have an independent rear susension (IRS), as promised long before the release of the all new 2005 Mustang. Instead the Shelby will run on a beefed up version of the live rear axle used in mainstream Mustangs.

http://www.muscularmustangs.com/2005/07cobra.php

No othe Mustang have independen suspension also.

Wikipedia:
All model years of the current Mustang retain a live axle rear suspension providing the benefits of reduced cost and weight over a heavier, more expensive and complicated independent rear suspension, at the expense of handling. Ford has drawn heavy criticism from the motoring journalism community for the decision to equip the current Mustang with the live axle system, due to the poor handling that results. At a press conference, Ford stated that to include a modern suspension system would have added $5,000 to the showroom price of the car.

You should have stated that the Cobra was limited production model, that not even produced anymore. Ford, it its wisdom, REPLACED an already developed independent rear suspension for their top Mustang by a live axle.

So my points are valid, as long as current top of the line Mustangs go. But you can live in the past if you want to.

I can smoke out Mustang GT 2008 with my Eclipse 2006 6Spd manual anytime....

And my bro with his MR2 2003 w/ Turbo can smoke out all these cars cause that little beast does 0-60 less then 4.9s.

Mustang GTs are not fast cars by any stretch, I don't know why people think they are and think it's an accomplishment to beat one.

I'd take a 91 MR2 Turbo any day, if not for the fact that I have issues paying $10,000 for a used 16 year old car with 200,000+ miles :(

You all think of the mustang as the one you see on all fords lot, but I guess none f you have ever road or driven a real mustang.

S281-e

ENGINE
Type 4.6L, 3V, SOHC V-8
Bore and Stroke 3.55 x 3.54 in.
Displacement 4.6 liters, 281 cu in.
Crankshaft Special Saleen Forged "Steel"
Connecting Rods Saleen Forged "Steel"
Pistons Saleen Forged Aluminum
Exhaust System Saleen Stainless, 2.5 in. Variable Exhaust
Horsepower 550 bhp @ 6100 RPM
Torque 525 lbs-ft Torque @ 4900 RPM
Fuel Premium Unleaded 91 Octane

Transmission Saleen Quick Ratio 6-Speed Transmission
Differential Saleen 4.10:1 Maxgrip™ Differential
Clutch High performance clutch
Flywheel Light Weight Aluminum
Driveshaft Balanced Aluminum

or

@007 saleen Parnelli Jones
ENGINE
Type 302 CID (5.0L) Modular,
3-valve SOHC V8
Bore and Stroke 3.55 x 3.80 in.
Displacement 5.0 liters, 302 cu in.
Exhaust System Saleen Stainless, 2.5 in. Dual Exhaust
System with Dual Aluminum Tips
Horsepower 400 hp @ 6000 RPM
Torque 390 lb-ft @ 4000 RPM
Fuel Premium Unleaded 91 Octane
Intake Saleen Design Shaker Hood with Hi-Flow Inlet Tube and Air Box

The 2005 Mustang GT is capable of performing a quarter-mile test in 13.4 seconds, with acceleration from 0-60 mph in 4.9 seconds

Ford Mustang GTX1 Basic Specifications:

Body Type: 2-door roadster
Engine: 550-hp, 500 lb-ft of torque, 5.4L, 32-valve, DOHC
Acceleration (estimated 0 - 60 mph): 3.6 seconds

and lest not forget Mustang's Shelby GT500

The right to purchase the first 2007 Ford Shelby GT500 was auctioned for $600,000

0-60 in 3.9

Luka:
I can smoke out Mustang GT 2008 with my Eclipse 2006 6Spd manual anytime....

And my bro with his MR2 2003 w/ Turbo can smoke out all these cars cause that little beast does 0-60 less then 4.9s.

First off: This won't be $40,000 US, that's just converted, especially with the US dollar being so low now.

Second: Shouldn't be comparing a Mustang to this Civic, two different types of cars: Mustang vs Camaro vs Challenger (yes). CivicRR vs MazdaSpeed3 vs GTI/R32 vs WRX (yes).

Third: I like this Civic, it's pretty much tuned to the way it should be. I'm pretty sure it'll drive like all other Honda Motors, happy to rev to the limit to get the top end.

Lets get real to if where going to talk about mustangs lets include the saleens.

The S281e coupe for starts

ENGINE
Type 4.6L, 3V, SOHC V-8
Bore and Stroke 3.55 x 3.54 in.
Displacement 4.6 liters, 281 cu in.
Crankshaft Special Saleen Forged Steel
Connecting Rods Saleen Forged Steel
Pistons Saleen Forged Aluminum
Exhaust System Saleen Stainless, 2.5 in. Variable Exhaust
Horsepower 550 bhp @ 6100 RPM
Torque 525 lbs-ft Torque @ 4900 RPM
Fuel Premium Unleaded 91 Octane
Saleen Intercooled Supercharger Saleen Series VI Integrated TwinScrew Supercharger With Two-Stage Water-to-Air Intercooler System; Cast 356-T6 Aluminum Alloy Construction
Radiator Saleen Performance dual-core radiator and high flow cooling system
Calibration Saleen PowerFlash™ performance calibration
Intake Saleen Design Hi-Flow Inlet Tube and Air Box
Fuel Injectors 39 lbs.
Mass Airflow Sensor 98mm

Allen has been watching to many the fast and the furious movies if he thinks a civic can out handle or out run a cobra mustang

Chris:

This RR version is improved in all aspects, better handling due to strenghtened frame, harder suspension, shorter gears. Sure it won't beat in a straight a car with a lot more power like the Mustang, but in corners i think it can beat it quite easily.

I've drove these kind of special R editions of standard cars (a car only sold in Spain, a Seat Leon Cupra R, 240 hp FF) and is extremely fast on mountain roads due to being compact, lightweight and powerful enought. FF helps since you have more traction in corners than FR. Of course AWD would be better, but oh well...

For some reason Ford always wildly exaggerate the Mustang's specs.
e.g. the Mustang GT spec says it does 0-60 in 4.9 but in real life its nowehere close.
When I used to have a Jag XK8 (its spec says 0-60 in about 5.5) I raced a friend in a Mustang GT on a flat track and smoked him badly from stationary start all the way past 90mph. I should have lost by miles just by spec.

Also Top Gear put a Shelby GT500 on a rolling road. Guess what.. the claimed 500BHP turns out to be less than 410.

Lets hope they put some major work in the suspension on this one because Car and Driver did a review of a bunch of sport compacts(civic SI, mazdaspeed 3, Ion Redline, Cobalt SS, etc) and the Civic SI came in second to last in all handling tests, yes second to last.

The new Civic does not handle as well as the 2000 SI did either, even with the 200hp we get here a 2000 SI could run circles around a 2007 SI.

NotForMe:
Got torque steer?

Dude, it's a Honda, it has no torque :)

justniz,

ever think maybe you were the better driver?

Luv it. Seats are just like those my toddler uses.

Remember there only slightly over 300 nut cases paying 40 grand for a Civic.

Seat Leon Cupra R with 240 RR is also available in Czech Republic so I'm assuming that in the rest of Europe as well.

Yea Hondas have poor torque but look at F1 cars and their HP to torque ratios... huge torque helps in 18wheeler but not a lightweight sports car.

Still it's 40 grand for a FF Civic. You could have a 300 BMW series one for that price... RWD...

The ford mustang is a car that is built to meet a certain price point. To produce a car that looks as good as it does for the amount that they spent is a great achiement, but trying to compare it to an M3 is like comparing cask wine to a good bottle of wine. You arguebly get more for your money with cask wine but it just doesn't have the refinement of the good bottled wine.

To clarify a point raised earlier the Ford Shelby GT500 does have a live rear axle (See the SVT website).

If you have a look at the Top Gear (UK) website and check out the power laps (http://www.bbc.co.uk/topgear/show/powerlaps.shtml). The GT500 laps in 1.30 the M3 CSL in 1.28. A two second difference on a short track... Also bear in mind that the M3 CSL is the last generation M3 and not the current 3 series and the engine is a 3.246l straight 6 that gives 341bhp.. The current standard M3 is a 4L V8 that give 420bhp..Both are NA engine that give over 100bhp per litre.. That is what an engine should be doing.

Later..

for the people who wanna run it about the mustang, you are comparing a tuner car to a stock car. is there a civic running with mustang in the races. nope. rsx, m3, 911 gt3, srt-4 are racing it and loosing. yeah i see a 4 door civic beating it in the corners alright.

has anyone seen the skidpad numbers of a 99 to 04 cobra, a 00 cobra r and 05-cunrrent mustang gt and compared them the any posted numbers for the civic? are ther any numbers posted for that thing or is this all speculation? as for the eclipses, you need to recheck your numbers. i havent seen one of the new ones run stock right into the 13's.

i love how almost everyone blasts on the mustang with no facts. pick up a mag and look at the dynos. you wont see a daily driving fwd car packing these numbers all the time. nitrous deosnt count cuz its only there at the touch of a button.
JustNiz - dyno numbers show the gt500 at 444rwhp. using performance numbers to figure hp is bs on street cars. dig for them and you will find them.

goezer:

I don't care much for the Shelby GT500, it's not a SVT Cobra regardless of them sticking a SVT emblem on it. John Coletti had nothing to do with the GT500.

I'm aware the GT500 has a live axle, one of the many reasons I don't want one. But I wasn't referring to the GT500, I was referring to the SVT Cobra.

I find it funny that the manufacture claim was that it was to cut costs and save weight and appeal to enthusiasts, yet the GT500 is both heavier and more expensive than the previous Cobra with IRS and about the same performance ...

you Americans could just head to canada and pick up a few parts from Acura to make your civic look like this.
In Canada, the Acura "CSX" is based on the civic. pick up a few light clusters/ trunk / hood and you got a unique civic.

TK, as I understand it Acura and Honda parts are as easily interchangible as parts between a GMC 1500 and a Chevy 1500. No need to go to Canada to get them.

Funny, people are actually comparing this to a muscle car. Its a tuner at best, econo car really. I always found it funny that people buy these, dump 15k+ into them, just so they can get it to come close to what my Camaro can do stock. Its sad how the tuner crowd, if they can beat a Camaro or Mustang are actually proud that they beat a stock car with their modified tuners. If I put 15k+ into my Camaro I could probably mod it past steet legal. I would love to see a modified tuner of any kind beat a modified Camaro when you put the same amount of money into each car. Stock to stock, these imports don't have a chance, modified vs. stock american muscle, the tuners have a slight chance if the driver is good enough. Modified vs. modified, again tuners have really no chance.

If I want a performance car, I will always opt to get one that I don't have to modify. IMO that rules out all the japenese imports. European cars are a whole different ball of wax.

I will give credit where its due, some/most of the european cars are really fast. Built for the autobahn and ready to run. I can't speak to the reliability of them but from what I have seen they know how to get them to perform.

To the person talking about their eclipse, I'll believe it when I see it. I've seen people with them talk alot of smack about how fast they are. Then they get creamed by an american car, usually a Nova, Camaro or Mustang. After those fast and furious movies (which I think are great comidies) everyone thinks they have a "10 second car". Sorry to inform you, but no. And for those that think they do, I enjoy showing them the taillights on my Camaro.

all in all , the the car makers have the car buyers labeled as suckers , they are selling useless hype for big buck$

Those lucky enough to secure the Mugen RR receive a lighter, more powerful and track-tuned Civic Type R that in the right hands is capable of lapping Japan's Tsukuba circuit in 1:06:38. At least that's what the folks at Mugen were able to wring out of it. We're sure some of the car's buyers will be looking to top that number as soon as they have a chance. With this thing, life is a driving game, and Time Attack mode is always on.

For reference:

Nismo Skyline GT-R Z Tune 1 min 01.150 secs
Ferrari 360 Challenge Stra' 1 min 02.440 secs
Lamborghini Gallardo 1 min 03.605 secs
Honda NSX-R 1 min 03.920 secs
McLaren F1 1 min 04.620 secs
Porsche 997 Turbo 1 min 04.730 secs
Murcielago 1 min 04.760 secs
EVO IX RS 1 min 05.528 secs
997 Carrera 4 1 min 05.980 secs
Corvette Z06 1 min 06.020 secs
Lancer Evo IX 1 min 06.060 secs
NA1 NSX-R 1 min 06.198 secs
Nismo GT-R S Tune 1 min 06.232 secs (340 bhp)
Mugen Civic RR 1 min 06.38 secs
Ferrari F40 1 min 06.460 secs
WRX STI SPEC-C 1 min 06.651 secs ( Current STI)
NA1 NSX-R 1 min 06.80 secs (same race as F40)
BMW M5 1 min 06.560 secs
STI S204 1 min 06.800 secs
BMW M6 1 min 07.434 secs
350Z S Version 1 min 08.110 secs
BMW M3 1 min 08.200 secs
Audi RS4 1 min 08.368 secs
Supra Euro Version 330 bhp 1 min 08.460 secs
Mazda RX-7 1 min 08.70 secs
RX-8 A Spec 1 min 09.430 secs
Nissan 300ZX 1 min 10.70 secs

Beats out the M3, 350Z, and F40... thats impressive for a FWD economy sedan.

I hope the Japanese take better car of their roads than they do here in the USA, or it could be an awfully uncomfortable trip for a gallon of milk ;)

HAHAHAHA those losers stoped showing off their cobras. =))) stupid americans... all they care is their 400m... pathetic

Enz0:

Stupid euro-peons, all they care about is turning fast in a parking lot because they don't have the power to go in a straight line.

It goes both ways, which way do you want to spin it?

Chris: While a good attempt at an analogy it failed horribly.

Any moron can make a car go fast in a straight line, just take a Ford Ranger, slap a Windsor 251 in it, and call it a day. Or take a Honda CRX and slap a K20 in it for the same effect. If you don't believe me just watch the show Pinks on SpeedTV, and you'll see just how dumb people can be and still drive a 9 second shit box.

Either way the general American thoughts of racing are pretty pathetic. We get to watch cars go in a circle all day while Euro/Jap races get all the good stuff (drifting, rallying, touge's, etc). Perhaps if American car makers could get good performance on anything but an oval we'd see more good racing in the states.

Meant to say Windsor 351, not 251.

Sorry don't care. When someone revs at me and thinks they are going to 'own' me it's ALWAYS at a light on a straight or on a merge, which is all about raw power.

They only whine about handling after they lose.

OMG!!! its got 2 Rs, not one. beat a mustang in a corner? well my go cart can turn shaper than this. would you rather have it?

look at the type of people who buy mustangs. correlate that to the comments here and that should answer all our questions.

I see jealous pathetic losers here... Honda FTW

Roflmao

wow all these years have gone by and these poor mustang guys still dont get it its called balanced tuning me personaly i used to drive a 93 lx 5.0 coupe and it was fast! but was it fast like my 2000 civic si with a $5000 cutom turbo kit never! so for a mere $21000 i have a car that runs neck & neck with stock z06's and runs rite past those weak mustangs, why even compare a stang to a civic they are not even in the same class! when im out driving i look for GT'S to whip because for some reason mustang drivers are cocky jerks who think their stangs are gods gift to the road.but i know how to fix that as soon as those jerks rev on me a the light i rev back & when they hear that Piiiiish coming from under my hood they go from tough guy to kid about to get smacked by his dad & seeing that look on ther face is priceless!

Ya'll forget that this car is for the REAL Honda enthusiast, limited edition, collector's item, rare, there's all kinds of reasons as to why people would buy pricey cars, that's what car enthusiast do. And Honda enthusiast are those who love the performance and quality of a Honda. As in we don't give a damn about your Fords, BMWs, Subarus, Mitsubishis, or whatever you got out there.
Sure you can talk all this smack about the civic but can you actually prove it? Did you go to Japan and race this civic? Didn't think so. Did it come to the US? No. Until you go or it comes we'll see whose car's better when you actually face off with THIS civic. Then you can b**** or brag, til you get your chance shut up. And remember it's not all the car that does the work, the driver gots to know how to run it...

does any one no if the civic mugen rr will be sold in the uk at all??

Most of you missed the whole point.
Its a race car kiddies. Hence the weight reduction and increased HP, brembo brakes, etc and thence the price tag.
It is geared for experienced racing groups and individuals.
Of course the regular consumers firstly would not be able to afford nor want to pay that price tag, nor would they have been able to be one of the 300 successful buyers.
Please people compare apples with apples.

PS
LvR8cN: --- well said

I had to chime in again.

LOL @ Srt-4 neon handles better than what exactly?

I own a 2006 Lancer Evo IX and I respect Honda any day. More so Mugen!

Again compare apples with apples. From the articles I have read nothing on the SRT-4 line from Dodge can handle period.
They just have too much Torque for FF.

They will also need suspension and drive train tuning to be able to keep up with this Mugen Civic. I would venture to say at least $10,000 in tuning and parts.
Remember you can make anything go fast. There are 1000HP Evos out there. YAH !! with $40,000 in tuning. What's the point?

I only ask that you do your research on why the cars is priced as such. A mustang with this type of tuning would cost $60,000 -- like Mustang GT 500 KR ? Sound familiar.

Do your homework kiddies.

I can't believe this... "Big Ty" Listen to yourslf.. A "mere 21k"... Who in their right mind would put 21k into a Civic. I could put 21k into a stining minivan and challange a corvette, but why would you do that????? A 240 hp Civic is fast or faster than a stock Z06, and likes to pick on Porches.. Come on! A Civic is a ECONOMY CAR, not a RACE CAR OR MUSCLE CAR. Civics are compact cars, Mustangs aren't. They are in different classes. If you listened to these guys you'd think that a Mustang can only go in a straight line. How often are you racing people in a turn? Only on a track. Pick up a road and track magazine, look at the numbers of a stock Mustang GT or Mustang and a stock Civic. Which has better numbers? Repeat after me A HONDA CIVIC IS NOT A PERFORMANCE CAR... A HONDA CIVIC IS NOT A PERFORMANCE CAR.... Once you start comparing a Civic to a Corvette you prove how ignorant you are. I now lowered my IQ by reading that. I award you no points and my God have mercy on your soul!

Hey 302: You can put whatever you want into which ever car you like. Im pretty sure with the gas as is today and increasing gas prices that shit talking of yours will come to a fast hault. Honda is a performance car, a civic can be a performance car if you build it into one. I know nothing about cars and could care less, but I'm pretty sure with (the weight of this Civic) + (the horsepower that accompanies it)=A Mustang Killer. I would put $ 21,000 into a Civic anyday. One of the best built motors around. So get out of a Honda chat room if you don't like what you read.

For all of you haters up in here , All i got to say is go to hell, Its a 4cyl all motor Civic with 240hp! And you guys are comparing it to V8's, V6's and turbo charged cars.

Oh yeah its ok to be mad when you get beat by a little civic. = )

YOU ARE ALL A BUNCH OF LOSERS!

WHO THE HEEELL COMPARES AN AMERICAN car to a japanes cars.....

suuure the MUGEN RR goes up to 40k but it last 2 time longer than a 30k dodge srt4,,,that costs 20000 to repair from crappy transmissions and overheated engines..

i mean here in kuwait were the weather is like SHIIIIT and i mean DDEEEP shit were car stops on the road from all that extrem weather ( in summer it gets as hight as 55C dgrees) and belive me if ya dont stay in shade for 5 minute you`ll pass out from a sun strok and your extra CRIISP..ssssssssezzling

however the point im refering here is im actauly seeing japanese cars with 300 000 MILES on the milage and i saw 400 000 too,,,wow in a weather like that

but as for the american cars...hah,,dont even get me started,,,,they are priced so cheap here and the spart parts cost more than the japanes spare parts of the same class,,no wounder those MORONZ are making big money...

NOW BEAT that,,no other brand is even close to be relaibel as the japanese when it comes to relaiblity and super balanced cars,,so when you say 40k for the top of the cream civic,,I WOULD gladly pay that much for a tarck monster reves insanly hight,,,i mean a relaible 9000 RPM engine GIVE ME A BREAK im saying this car is UNDERPRICED dud,,,when the japanes
i mean you guys dont ya know that hight reving engines dont last long..? and they cost alooot to make and develop,,,so 40 000 dollars and long term durability ?

so as we say here in kuwait :
FORD a car you can aFORD

sorry.. english is my second langauge..still learning,,but im good at mechnics,,,infact i studied to much i forgot i had a life,,hahaaaaaaa

and ya your right guys,,i hate it when some jerkz who barly passed the hightschool talk like their professors in this,,,sheesh,,,
dont do that,,,it only shows how inferior you are in this feild.,..ah what ever

WHO THE HEEELL COMPARES AN AMERICAN car to a japanes cars.....

suuure the MUGEN RR goes up to 40k but it last 2 time longer than a 30k dodge srt4,,,that costs 20000 to repair from crappy transmissions and overheated engines..

i mean here in kuwait were the weather is like SHIIIIT and i mean DDEEEP shit were car stops on the road from all that extrem weather ( in summer it gets as hight as 55C dgrees) and belive me if ya dont stay in shade for 5 minute you`ll pass out from a sun strok and your extra CRIISP..ssssssssezzling

however the point im refering here is im actauly seeing japanese cars with 300 000 MILES on the milage and i saw 400 000 too,,,wow in a weather like that

but as for the american cars...hah,,dont even get me started,,,,they are priced so cheap here and the spart parts cost more than the japanes spare parts of the same class,,no wounder those MORONZ are making big money...

NOW BEAT that,,no other brand is even close to be relaibel as the japanese when it comes to relaiblity and super balanced cars,,so when you say 40k for the top of the cream civic,,I WOULD gladly pay that much for a tarck monster reves insanly hight,,,i mean a relaible 9000 RPM engine GIVE ME A BREAK im saying this car is UNDERPRICED dud,,,when the japanes
i mean you guys dont ya know that hight reving engines dont last long..? and they cost alooot to make and develop,,,so 40 000 dollars and long term durability ?

so as we say here in kuwait :
FORD a car you can aFORD

sorry.. english is my second langauge..still learning,,but im good at mechnics,,,infact i studied to much i forgot i had a life,,hahaaaaaaa

and ya your right guys,,i hate it when some jerkz who barly passed the hightschool talk like their professors in this,,,sheesh,,,
dont do that,,,it only shows how inferior you are in this feild.,..ah what ever

WHO THE HEEELL COMPARES AN AMERICAN car to a japanes cars.....

suuure the MUGEN RR goes up to 40k but it last 2 time longer than a 30k dodge srt4,,,that costs 20000 to repair from crappy transmissions and overheated engines..

i mean here in kuwait were the weather is like SHIIIIT and i mean DDEEEP shit were car stops on the road from all that extrem weather ( in summer it gets as hight as 55C dgrees) and belive me if ya dont stay in shade for 5 minute you`ll pass out from a sun strok and your extra CRIISP..ssssssssezzling

however the point im refering here is im actauly seeing japanese cars with 300 000 MILES on the milage and i saw 400 000 too,,,wow in a weather like that

but as for the american cars...hah,,dont even get me started,,,,they are priced so cheap here and the spart parts cost more than the japanes spare parts of the same class,,no wounder those MORONZ are making big money...

NOW BEAT that,,no other brand is even close to be relaibel as the japanese when it comes to relaiblity and super balanced cars,,so when you say 40k for the top of the cream civic,,I WOULD gladly pay that much for a tarck monster reves insanly hight,,,i mean a relaible 9000 RPM engine GIVE ME A BREAK im saying this car is UNDERPRICED dud,,,when the japanes
i mean you guys dont ya know that hight reving engines dont last long..? and they cost alooot to make and develop,,,so 40 000 dollars and long term durability ?

so as we say here in kuwait :
FORD a car you can aFORD

sorry.. english is my second langauge..still learning,,but im good at mechnics,,,infact i studied to much i forgot i had a life,,hahaaaaaaa

and ya your right guys,,i hate it when some jerkz who barly passed the hightschool talk like their professors in this,,,sheesh,,,
dont do that,,,it only shows how inferior you are in this feild.,..ah what ever

well im currently into the bowtie have been for my whole life. Im starting to believe in all this reliability talk my malibu has been to the dealer 3x now in 2 years -.- if honda keeps making stylish cars like this and my car keeps breaking down im gonna jump ship! I wouldnt pay 40k$ lol but 20k$ on a new si is a little bit appealing lately.

yo most of ya gots to do your research i agree with don the civic might be over priced but what idiot said a s2k would be better if you looked it up the mugen rr destroyed the s2k by a least 2 mins on the circut which circut i forgot but still it has 240hp but it may sound weak compared to mustangs but hondas are famous for there great power-weight ratios while mustangs are the exact opposite in a few years the new mustangs engnine will be swapped into a fox body like every other mustang in existance . while the mustang may push 400-500hp it really feels like 350-450hp cause the power losss due to the excessive wieght mustangs have. while on the other hand the mugen rr has 243 horses and feels like 240 horses and only wieght what tops at a ton and a halve