I blame it all on TRANSFORMERS!!! MWuaaahahahahaha.
/shrug

definitely the transformers

What GM needs to do to fix itself is first drop Pontiac. Second, only sell Buicks overseas since China is the main consumer of Buicks. Third, get rid of Hummer also. Fourth, start paying attention to Cadillac and Chevrolet and give them the Saturn treatment. Saturn has had an awesome turnaround and this is what needs to happen with the other brands. And finally rember that GM is a car company, not a health care company that sells cars on the side. Follow these steps and GM will succeed. Failure to follow will result in the demise of GM.

Well now let see, I sell more stuff but it costs me more to make the stuff and I have to sell my stuff at a lower price than the people I compete with. Huuummmm, I think I'm losing the game.

Does it matter really? New cars suck, all this fancy complicated stuff on it that only the dealers can fix. I like my old american car, is it reliable? maybe not amazing but at least I can fix most of it in my garage at home with a jack and some basic tools. These cars are gonna get more and more complicated until eventually only the dealer will be able to fix thier cars and all the joe mechanic shops will shut down. Then you'll be forced to go and pay the dealer big bucks. Besides new cars go down in value soo quickly its discusting. I'm disapointed in all car manufactures. New cars are ugly, they all are the same crap, I hope this areodynamic 'styling' is a fad and will fade away. Cars are becoming more and more bubbly soon they will just be a round ball and look like something out of a 60s sci-fi movie. I don't care if boxy cars aren't areodynamic, with todays speeed limits its not like we are (or should be) going fast enough for it to matter. The hybrid stuff, ugg, all media crap, as if buying a hybrid is gonna stop global warming, yea thanks for polluting 1 micron less than everyone else, oh wait your battery is solid toxic waste. Electric cars are great until you have to refill the fuel, "oh I have to wait at the station for 3 hours while my car charges up". Hydrogen is awsome except it takes up so much space even when compressed you'd need a tanker truck to equal your gas tank in terms of energy. Hopefully hydride tanks will flourish. Ethanol is cool except all the farm tractors and stuff burning poluting fuels to make the kinda enviromentally safe fuel. Not that the companies really care they are just trying to make money, money for what? so they can say, hey look everyone I made more money than you, HAHAHA too bad the planet is dieing and we are all $#%#ed. And the governments sit there are don't do anything, why? because most politicians are corporate bastards too. And we the people are suposed to change the world, we the people with no power, the ones just desperatly trying to survive a normal life and suport our kids. I say we are doomed, and its all thanks to the top 10% richest and powerful people. I could go on but its already so long nobody will read and soo off topic that I'm jsut gonna end...

your spelling was great. ^^

but anyways. BACK TO GM, I think theyre doing well. The more GM products bought, hell, the more american products bought, the more jobs we have!

keep buying imports china :)

GM's new crossover SUV-like vehicles, like the Outlook, or Acadia, are a better direction than their minivans that can't compete with some of the Japanese market vans,( like the Toyota Sienna for instance). One thing families want are large, stylish cars that can fit the family and gear and have better gas milage than a Tahoe or Yukon. It's a new step forward.

Speaking of Gas Milage, they have many various cars that have a MPG of 30 or over, which helps the comman working man, who drives to and fro work everyday like myself. especially since i'm in highschool and have to pay for more than a hefty gas bill.

I hope that GM, Ford Motor Company, and Chrysler all start to sell at least a little better, for the economy's sake.

btw, I love new cars. Go ahead and drive your box piece of crap Monte Carlo while I wiz by in a Dodge Charger.

and, while I'm in the mood, BMW, for example, comes with free service 3 yr/36,000 miles. and most last until 300,000 miles.

Well, I believe a car shows your personality. That doesnt mean it has to be expensive. I'm just saying, a classy business man would have a shiny black newer car, for example.

So... you drive a rust piece of shit... hmmm... :)

your spelling was great. ^^

but anyways. BACK TO GM, I think theyre doing well. The more GM products bought, hell, the more american products bought, the more jobs we have!

keep buying imports china :)

GM's new crossover SUV-like vehicles, like the Outlook, or Acadia, are a better direction than their minivans that can't compete with some of the Japanese market vans,( like the Toyota Sienna for instance). One thing families want are large, stylish cars that can fit the family and gear and have better gas milage than a Tahoe or Yukon. It's a new step forward.

Speaking of Gas Milage, they have many various cars that have a MPG of 30 or over, which helps the comman working man, who drives to and fro work everyday like myself. especially since i'm in highschool and have to pay for more than a hefty gas bill.

I hope that GM, Ford Motor Company, and Chrysler all start to sell at least a little better, for the economy's sake.

btw, I love new cars. Go ahead and drive your box piece of crap Monte Carlo while I wiz by in a Dodge Charger.

and, while I'm in the mood, BMW, for example, comes with free service 3 yr/36,000 miles. and most last until 300,000 miles.

Well, I believe a car shows your personality. That doesnt mean it has to be expensive. I'm just saying, a classy business man would have a shiny black newer car, for example.

So... you drive a rust piece of shit... hmmm... :)

your spelling was great. ^^

but anyways. BACK TO GM, I think theyre doing well. The more GM products bought, hell, the more american products bought, the more jobs we have!

keep buying imports china :)

GM's new crossover SUV-like vehicles, like the Outlook, or Acadia, are a better direction than their minivans that can't compete with some of the Japanese market vans,( like the Toyota Sienna for instance). One thing families want are large, stylish cars that can fit the family and gear and have better gas milage than a Tahoe or Yukon. It's a new step forward.

Speaking of Gas Milage, they have many various cars that have a MPG of 30 or over, which helps the comman working man, who drives to and fro work everyday like myself. especially since i'm in highschool and have to pay for more than a hefty gas bill.

I hope that GM, Ford Motor Company, and Chrysler all start to sell at least a little better, for the economy's sake.

btw, I love new cars. Go ahead and drive your box piece of crap Monte Carlo while I wiz by in a Dodge Charger.

and, while I'm in the mood, BMW, for example, comes with free service 3 yr/36,000 miles. and most last until 300,000 miles.

Well, I believe a car shows your personality. That doesnt mean it has to be expensive. I'm just saying, a classy business man would have a shiny black newer car, for example.

So... you drive a rust piece of shit... hmmm... :)

whoa....i<3torquereport. Be patient with the post button. Sometimes it takes a fairly long time for some odd reason. :P

Wow, just wow.

You are so negative! Yes, I agree that cars are ugly today. All cars look the same and it seems that almost every car manufacturer is thinking; "If we make our cars LOOK like the best-sellers we might gain some market shares...".
An yes, I agree that cars are more complicated today but still, I don't think hope is lost on this one. The only difference between today and 30 years ago (besides the fact that you need to take everything apart to reach what needs be fixed ;)) is that you need to be a mechanic AND a computer nerd. With those two skills together you can do just about as much as you used to on the older cars. There's a lot of info on the net. Look up some info on OBDII, and the CAM bus you'll have everything you need.
I also understand the frustration about the global warming and how little each individual can affect it. I think the biggest villain is the "corporate logistics" since it is cheaper to transport parts all over the world and transport them 25 turns around the globe instead of producing them locally. Maybe some day there will be some means to "clean up our own mess" by cleaning the atmosphere from CO2; One might cover some large areas of the oceans with some efficient photosynthetic algea for this task and then maybe even refine parts of it for use as fuel in cars...
Mind you ethanol is not the only option; we have methanol, Fischer-Tropsch Diesel (aka synthetic diesel or Eco-Par/Bio-Par), FAME (FattyAcidMethyleEsther), DME(DiMethylEther) and a number of means to bind hydrogen in chemical compunds. Ingredients doesn't necessarily need be grown on land, why not use the ocean as mentioned above? BTW: Fuel-Cell cars are/will be gassed up with liquid fuel the same way as ordinary cars.

So the Hummers aren't selling so well these days. I think the cars are pretty cool and to have a brand that stands for durability in the product line is not a bad thing.

Wether true or not, people thinking american cars are unreliable and asian ones are, that alone will hurt sales. I think its too late for the mid aged people and the baby boomers however loyal are gonna die soon. GM should focus on the young new drivers, create cheap, stylish, fast, reliable cars, like my car was when it was new. Kinda like the muscle car era was. Won't be easy and i know Americans don't like change but continuing on the current path most would agree is suicide. Oldsmobile is gone but still do they really need all these other brands, just because people are loyal to pontiac, come on, the people who are that loyal are gonna be dead or not driving in a decade so its not really worth it to have clones of cars. The Volt however ugly is kinda cool, it shows they might be trying make a enviromentaly friendly car. I really wish hydrogen would take off, even old engines like mine can run on hydrogen with some modifications. GM should be like cigarettes, get em while they are young and never let go, that means no screw ups. Only takes one bad car to turn someone off a brand. And for the record my car isn't that rusty considering its 36 years old and I know I can't spell well.

I live how mr "hard to copy an paste your name" thinks todays cars are too complicated. Somehow, I have no trouble working on mine. Really, all that is complex on it is the computer, and I hate to say it to shut a backwards person as yourself, but computers are not terribly complicated machines. I built my own. Now, did I build the chips and motherboard? No, but then again, no one has ever machined their own block or made their own carburetors. And once upon a time, people though TYPEWRITERS were complex technology. My grandmother specifically. I laugh when I see that.

Also, the reason for aerodynamic styling is that it both improves performance and fuel economy. Your 60s crate wont be as effecient as a last gen NSX without drastic development.

As for Americans not liking change, LOL! You are the one who wants cars that look like 40 years ago! And you cannot learn to use a computer apparently! YOU are a Luddite, and your saying we cannot take change? Laughable!

As for muscle cars being reliable, my grandparents were never mechanically inclined, and I hear the horror stories all the time about how they were taking it to shops. The thing was, it was less for people to learn, back then, to work on their own cars. Today, people just are even less capable of learning: I hardly know anyone, even old people, who want to learn how to do simple things like change their own oil or replace an AC compressor (something which is as simple now as it was 40 years ago).

Simply put my friend, you are a dumbass. I cannot believe you are even capable of posting on this forum. How can you stand all that advanced, complex computer technology in front of you? Hah!

Im sorry, I just had to comment again on the complexity of todays cars. They really are not. For instance, last year I was assisting an uncle in replacing the carb on 73 Camaro. He (at the end of the installation) was talking about how impossible it was to work on the intakes of any of these "new fangled pieces of jap junk." To which I replied "It couldn't be easier! how the heck can you not do it?"

After an arguement, he insisted I change the throttle body and air intake without having to work on the computer On a 99 Tahoe. Fine I said, and I proceded to remove the intake tube and the throttle body with simply hand tools and just using my fingers to disconnect the throttle cable. I just pulled out the air flow sensor. We ordered an intake tube and a new airbox from GM, and yanked a throttle body out of a 98 Tahoe that I saw at a yard of soem kind (dont know if it was properly called a salvage yard or junkyard). I spent like $20 on parts (compared to his several hundred dollar Demon carb). Anyway, I proceded to just install the parts, took a whole of a half hour, and just put hte sensor in. Done. He said "so what if the sensor was bad brainiac?" So I just ordered another sensor, found it online for $50, and just pulled the wiring off the old one and put it on the new one. Even 40 years ago, you had to run wires in a car.

All in all, I proved to him it was not complicated at all. I never had to program a computer or anything.

First of all, dude, double posting is bad (and frequent here), but QUADRUPLE posting, especially on a lengthy post, is really bad.

And to the guy who said "Get rid of Pontiac", they make pretty much the only lower-end cars that GM makes that I would buy.

gm0n3y, I agree with you on the pontiac thing, they are the only cars GM currently makes that have anything that even resembles style, and if you want to win young buyers i think that is probably what you need. Pontiac just needs to shed the old image of things like the 90s Bonnevilles, and etc. So far they are doing a pretty good job at that in my humble opinion. Cars such as the G6 and Solstice are far more interesting and stylish than anything GM makes. Saturn treatmentfor every division? Are you kidding me? Saturns are some of the worst styled vehicles I have seen in my life and I have no idea where the idea that they are more reliable than other GM cars came from, especially considering how often they share the same drivetrain. GM does need to dump Buick, work on the styling for saturn (Saturn owners are stereotypically ridiculously loyal, just need to earn some new customers) and continue to use Pontiac as the budget brand. I dont even know what to say about Chevy itself, bring back the Camaro (they are) and re-style the Vette (they did) and dump the new Cavalier (Cobalt) as its one of the most unpleasant vehicles i have ever driven, and that would be a start.

"The U.S. is the world's most profitable market..."

Does this mean that we're complete tards overpaying for the crap that's offered?

"GM's new crossover SUV-like vehicles, like the Outlook, or Acadia, are a better direction than their minivans that can't compete with some of the Japanese market vans"

I don't know if you read reviews, but GM's new class of SUV like x-overs are not doing too well. They still come in DEAD LAST in every comparison I've read. They weigh nearly 5,000lbs and are powered by a 3.5L NA V6....real smart. Kind of negates performance AND fuel economy.

GM needs to just copy Toyota and Honda's game. Develop one great car for each class. Honda's Fit and Civic are easily the BEST in their classes, along with the Accord and Camry.

Nooo, GM has to put out half a dozen craptastic clones of vehicles that no one wants. It's not really that hard...I should be CEO.

I assemble my own computers aswell Mr Allen, I have been doing that since you could buy seperate parts from stores. I also know some computer programming and have made some games for fun. You can disagree with me or even say I'm wrong, but calling people stupid is just rude and unnecssary, unless you have a self confidence issue in which I sugest another method would be more acceptable. Now I don't want to start a fight here but I think I at least have to right to defend my self. If anything I'm lazy and don't want to have to take apart half an engine bay to change one thing or have to buy chip programmers and such to work on my car. Say what you want about it being easy, todays labour prices are insane, I'd rather have a car I can easily fix my self. If it was soo easy to fix cars 99% of people wouldn't be taking thiers to shops, or do you think they are dumbass too? I have no problem being corrected politely, and if you were that smart you would have learned somewhere in life to be kind to people.

Detroit's $100 billion headache

Talks with UAW over retiree health care costs crucial for survival of GM, Ford, Chrysler.

Saturn seems to be doing something right. Their sales are up 27% in North America in the 2nd quarter this year, and they were up in the 1st quarter as well. Their new line is definitely a change for the better with the Aura, Outlook, Sky and Vue.

While each vehicle may not be the best in class vehicle, they are definitely closing the gap between themselves and the competition.

The Outlook is big and slow, but also roomy and comfortable. Personally, if I'm looking for a 3 row vehicle, I'm probably not looking for the fastest 0-60 time.

I think what a lot of people fail to understand is that although Japanese car makers are coming on strong, they still don't sell as many cars in North America as GM does. Here's the question, If there is at least one superior car to a GM in every class, then why are GM's still outselling every other brand?

Allen:

The computer is the best part about new cars! Not getting 700+ HP out of 281 cubic inches, 25 mpg, and passing emissions without it!

Guess it's not so mysterious to me being an electronics person and programmer first and car enthusiast second. I don't see how you could tune carbs and stay sane with things floating and drifting all the time when you can tune a computer that can fine tune parameters in real time in response to every engine vital sign 1000s of times per degree of crank revolution as if the engine was standing still.

"I think what a lot of people fail to understand is that although Japanese car makers are coming on strong, they still don't sell as many cars in North America as GM does. Here's the question, If there is at least one superior car to a GM in every class, then why are GM's still outselling every other brand?"

Because they sell many as fleet vehicles and many at a loss. Here's the REAL question, if it's so great that GM is selling so many cars, why are they in the dog house financially while Toyota is recording record profits?

Chris:
I hope you are not suggesting that somehow I am computer adverse. All I said was that it was easier to work on them then our friend with the hard to copy and paste name suggests. And I dont know about 700hp and 25 mpg, but 500 hp and the same mileage rating? Easily achievable. 700hp, well even with most big blocks, you'd need some kind of forced induction. Just a couple of pounds of boost. I for one do not personally enjoy working with the restrictive software that most car companies place in their computers, but, its not too hard to work around.

As for carburators: I totally agree, in an age when fuel injection (done right) can be as cheap if not cheaper than a carb, and when every single engineer I know says fuel injection has every capability of surpassing whatever Edelbrock is cooking up, I see no reason to not use it. Hell, I have a diary from relatives long ago (my family was once a planation owning family in Virginia, that later did some deals with Oil companies for storage and distribution), and in one of them its hilarious to read about my greatx3 uncle or so and his first experience with a car. I think it reads "how anyone could stop using something so reliable as a horse for one of these overly complex contraptions the city boys are cooking up, I cannot imagine." Eh, really only funny when you think about it in the context of the topic.

To Abe: I totally agree, whenever I hear someone talk about GM and the number one spot, I always think to what their car sales entail. Between fleet sales and retail sales, the fact that Toyota, Honda and Nissan can be so big on just retail when the Big 3 Americans need all those low margin fleet vehicles, its just a testament to what is a better business plan.

شورلت : (hey, that worked this time!) Sorry I went off on you so bad. I just happen to live in an area where a lot of people like you live. That is to say, they complain about how the cars of 40 years ago are not made today, how the world does not work "like it did back in the good days," and who basically just hates on young people and whatever they like. Dont try and make me believe you know anything about technology when you cannot even work on a car with a big scary computer: prove you can. If I am using an Q6600 processor, what kind of slot do I need on the motherboard for it? And what type of RAM at what minimum speed? And pray tell you can answer this: who makes that processor? The last one you can find online.

As to why people are taking theirs to shops: because they emulate you with their work ethic. Like you said, its laziness. Other than old people who could work on old cars, few people I know have taken any interest in knowning how to actually work on a car anymore, at least, outside of automotive circles. Go to cardomain.com though, and you'll find many people who can work on their own cars, some with more success than others I admit. Most of the cars there? New, thats to say, they have onboard computers and fuel injection.

And taking apart half your engine bay? What the heck kind of abuse do you subject the engine to that you need to remove half the thing? Have you ever even attempted to work on a fuel injected vehicle? I hate to tell you, but the oil changes mostly the same way if in some cases its different at all. Need coolant? Pour it in. Need to change a fan? Like it was 40 years ago, just pull it out, bolt new one on. Change a intake manifold? Heck, on old cars that took a lot of work! Well, it took removing the carb, and kind of pumps or such that sat above it, and then unbolting the manifold. How does it work today?

Pretty much the same way, the number of steps may have grown longer, but with most cars removing the intake manifold can still be done with a wrench and some time. Ever watch SpikeTVs powerblock? They do TONS of work on fuel injected, computer controlled cars. Somehow, they are never programming or using highly scientific equipment on anything. Hell, if your in need of a new prescription on your glasses like me last weekend, you really wont tell the difference in the build-up until someone mentions injectors or a wiring harness.

And something to the engine bay: you know most of whats under the hood of new cars is just plain dress up right? Take a new Hyundai Tuscon: the plastic cover? Just that, it can be taken off. All those hoses and valves off to one side? Same thing. You may notice a compressor taking up a lot of room. Something I notice on new cars compared to stock old ones is what was once hidden under the dash or out of sight is now in plain sight under the hood. Take that 73 Camaro I mentioned before: most of the AC system (now I dont know if this was my uncle or GM) is actually sitting under the dash, on the cab side of the firewall. Thats why the engine bay looks so clean: little things like that which on new cars are in the bay were then hidden.

Is it harder to work on because of this? No, I find it easier, as I never have to go digging for something like an AC compressor. Which maybe its just me, but dont those things fail a lot on anyone else here? I loose one a year it seems, just someone in my family calls and "the AC isnt working? Can you fly here and fix it waah." Most of my family drives American makes btw. Most of the time its an 8 hour drive to save them a few hundred bucks (its really bad when it just needs a flushing and charging, that takes a whole hour if your slow about it!).

Q6600 is the 'Quad Core' Intel Core 2 processor and requires an LGA775 socket motherboard. Uses DDR2 533mhz or 667mhz. Modern day RWD cars aren't really any harder, I more mean the FWD cars, with the engine turned 90 degrees, the belts and accesories are hard to reach from what I see, and FWD cars tend to have smaller engine bays to reach things. When I changed my car from automatic to manual I just droped out the transmission from underneath and put in the new one. I didn't have to take out everything. I had a 2000 mustang (RWD) before and it was nice. Its kinda hard for me to hate young people and look back at the good old days since I'm not old and wasn't around then. Most cars are FWD now and I hate working on them and driving them. So I stereotype and say I hate new cars. I also am not a fan of all the plasic bumpers and such. Everytime someone ran into my mustang they cracked the plastic skirt and it cost hundreds to fix. People run into my car now and I get a dent and I laugh at them when I see thier skirt/bumper cracked. I realize plastic absorbs energy and might be safer but its a pain now a days with so many people on thier cell phones not focusing running into me.

Your Mustang was nice to work on? It must have been a V6 then.

Pull a valve cover or install long tube headers on a '03 Cobra and tell me RWD longitudinal designs are easier to work on than FWD transverse designs... that car has a DOHC supercharged V8 shoehorned into the same space that most cars reserve to fit an inline 4.

And for a daily driver I'd rather know I can get a cheap bumper cover for $200 than ruin a piece of original chrome on a car that I will never be able to find or replace ever again.

To Chris: amen to working on the Cobra and darn you all the same. Right as I read your words "I will never be able to find or replace ever again" I got a call. I'm now in the market for some original looking door panels for a 68 Ford Falcon. A friend recently bought it as a project car, and the body was fine it just needed sanding and paint. Well, he took it for a spin, and someone hit him. A basketball size dent is in the passenger side door now.

And to شورلت , I'm glad to see you can search for stuff at Tomshardware. Its good to know luddites can use technology when they have too.

As to FWD cars being a pain to work on: no shit. Hell, thats been true since, well the first FWD cars came out. I thought you were just complaining about the onboard computer and such. No, I totally agree that its harder to get to the belts and such when they are not facing forward (I would however, totally disagree with any similar statements about any new RWD cars)(except for ones with incredibly large, stuffed in engines). I knew a guy with a Mitsubishi Eclipse once (thats to say, he once had an Eclipse), that engine sucked to work on. I once just gave up trying to get to this damn valve to the back and underneath the intake box. Then he just pulled the box off and it still took ninja precision to pull it out. Eh, but, like you said, its all a matter of laziness. If I give it time, I can do it.

Hmmm, wait. Longitudinal Engines..... V8...... easy to work on.....

It seems we are all automatic fans of the new BMW 550i..... %^#$*&! germans....

If any of my friends knew someone thought I knew nothing about technology they would laugh so hard they would die. I really don't know why Mr Allen you have it stuck in your head that I'm some sort of noob who knows nothing, and you challenge me to a question, I answer right and I automatically must have cheated and looked it up. Seriously give it up, I hate having to waste posts defending my self, but you are giving me no choice. I'm also not a person against technology, I understand EFI is more efficient but its a hell of a lot easier for me to slap on a new carberator than set up and wire a new EFI system. Older cars were for the most part all RWD with huge engine bays making it easier to work on, newer cars are mostly FWD with tiny engine bays making it harder, and from your last post it seems you agree with me on that. You also have to remember the more fancy things they add to a car the most expensive it will be to fix. The hybrid cars come to mind, with thier fancy electric motors and control systems.

In responce to Chris, a cheap bumper cover? Some guy hit my V6 2000 mustang slightly in the back and it needed 1-2grand repairs. New taillight, entire one piece bumper cover was destroyed. Paint matched the bumber.. etc. He paid for it and obviously was taken to a shop so labour charges were involved but still. BTW I liked that car, wasn't very fast but besides people running into it like it was a target (it was red), it was reliable.

I hope its not sounding like new cars are impossible to work on, I know it all can be done, it just takes longer. Most people are lazy and I'm no different. In my mind its easier to open a hood and poke around than buy some scangauge plug it in, read the error code, then try and fix the problem, obviously Allen disagrees but thats ok. I just think Allen needs to calm down a bit, you get very excited so to speak. Kinda like my first post I did when I was half asleep and grumpy.

I don't know what is easier ... while you're poking around under the hood via trail and error and playing the game of elimination, I'm plugging in a hand held scan tool and reading 'misfire in cylinder #4' in order to discover some water had leaked down into the coil pack recess... in cylinder #4.

I happen to find wiring harnesses and dealing with computers second nature to me, being an electrical and computer person. It's not that hard, just a simple embedded system. Inputs: Coolant temp, O2 ratio, knock event, cam/crank position/RPM, air mass or pressure & temp, throttle position, maybe a few others aux units I'm missing. Computer uses all this to form an offset into a set of tables 1000s of times per second and; Outputs: fuel injector pulse, ignition sync (demuxed by an external ignition module), and maybe a idle air bypass valve. Manipulating those tables is like having a mixture control screw for every 100 RPM instead of one or two for the entire range.

To me all that stuff is far more simpler and straight forward than a carb. The carb was only a crude hack to do what we all knew we should have been doing in the first place but didn't have the technology for (fast and rugged tiny precise injectors, fast cheap small computers, etc).

i can't wait to have the cash to get a MR2 Turbo as a project car and do a fully built 3SGTE and play with a stand alone Motec M4 or AEM unit. In the mean time visions of a twin turbo 324 on the Cobra may steal all my cash for any side projects...

The reason someone can rear end your Mustang and it needs $2000 in repairs is not because the parts cost tons of money شورلت |. Its because DEALERS CHARGE LOTS OF MONEY FOR LABOR. Recently I had the dealer replace my moms Windshield Wiper control unit and they charged her $267 (I couldnt fly out to fix it that day). I checked the price of the part online and found out that I could buy it for $57.89, with tax and shipping. If you were not so lazy as to not work on new cars, just old ones, you'd find it is cheaper.

And to the arguement that I know will follow that: it was not cheaper to have mechanics repair the car 30 years ago. 30 years ago, INFLATION was not so high, and labor costs were lower still. Today, labor is higher, inflation is MUCH HIGHER, and most of your parts repair costs are actually just labor. Not parts. To busy to taunt you again, you worthless piece of luddite trash, but I will be back.

Wazzup!

What do you think about Tokio Hotel? >:)