This is the best news I've heard in awhile from American car makers. Let's just hope the diesels that are in development are better than the American diesels of yore. Anyone remember how sucky the GM 5.7 liter engine was? Hopefully GM will pay close attention to how smooth BMW and Mercedes diesels are and take some notes on this. Also will GM actually build their own motors or will another company such as Isuzu provide the engines?

Does anyone remember the fiasco with the GM's Oldsmobile Diesel engine? It was a notorious for its unreliability, and soured America on diesel cars for decades after that. Hopefully they will pay more attention this time, and not make a piece of junk again.

A modern diesel engine costs about three times more than a gasoline one. Dont know if americans could pay such premium. And it takes very soffisticated technology to make diesels. Don't think GM will be good at it considering the trash they make now.

I think I read that diesel SUV's are not held to the same ultra-strict emissions standards as diesel cars in states like NY and CA (at the moment). That's why Mercedes is stopping the sale of the E320 bluetec next year in favor of placing that motor in the M class or Jeep liberty without having to use the complex urea system yet still attaining 50 state emission compliance. So will the diesel Accord come out at the same time as the diesel Odyssey/Ridgeline/Pilot or is Honda gonna buy some time by slipping through the same loophole? Just a theory.

GM doesn't seem very interested in diesels, probably the most realistic way to improve fuel economy right now (sigh).

GM already sells good diesel engines in Europe (Opel) some in co-operation with Isuzu and others with Fiat, so i see no problem in making new V6 or V8 the last is more tricky to manufacture.

GM is full of donkey crank just like they have always been. The US division doesn't know how to build good diesels and more than likely will yet again sour that experience in america.

I have owned a Mitsubishi Triton (for those of you who are not familiar with the Triton it's a small scale pickup truck like what the Nissan Frontier used to be many years ago before it took steroids and blew up in size)

http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com.my/vehicle/triton/index.asp

The Mitsubishi Triton I had came with a stock 4 cylinder turbo diesel when I worked in Malaysia. That truck had to be the quietest diesel I have ever owned and never a trail of smoke when i laid on the accelerator or the typical smell of american diesels. it also had plenty of torque and power. Many times i have forgotten that it was a diesel and thought it was a really good strong 4 banger with great torque until it came time for me to fill up the tank, which by the way was very fuel efficient.

I would really love to see diesels like that in america but unfortunately i can foresee GM, Dodge and even Ford will totally ruin diesel technology yet again in favor of their gas guzzling petro counterparts keeping the mindset in americans that diesels are best for commercial vehicles.

I love how they always go to blaming emmisions standards for the problems. How about this? Stop building pushrod engines. All your competitors are using DOHC and Mercedes, for one, is not going to have to do a urea system. Honda also does not seem to sweat a diesel under these standards. Its JUST YOU.

GM has been building these 6.4 L and up engines with pushrods for decades, and thats why the keep them around. But in the automotive world, whats been done before has never been as successful as whats done now or tommorow. For example, in the fiftys GM was building 2 barrel carberators for its V8 engines. Every one of those cars, when stock, would lose to a 4 barrel V8 in any GM car from the late 60s. New technology = better cars.

Why not do that now and bring something new to the market? I've been hearing people moan about supposed "flat torque curves" and such for years. Why you want tons of torque at the top of the RPM range anyway is beyond me, but if you go to the worlds road racing courses, you'll rarely find a American car winning them. The last big win at Le Man was 40 years ago by Ford, and ever since America hasn't performed there to any fanfare at all.

Sigh. Excuses, thats what we get from GM.

Screw GM. They're on their way out. Toyota is already beating them. They are a backward thinking company that has done nothing over the past 15+ years to increase fuel efficiency. If you want fuel efficiency get a Prius. GM doesn't have a clue. Look what they did with the EV1. If you haven't seen the documentary "Who Killed the Electric Car?", go check it out. They had a battery electric vehicle with a 150 mile range and a top speed of 80 MPH and they cancelled it and took back all the ones they leased out and crushed them with California got rid of the ZEV mandate. It won't be long before other electric car manufacturers will be using Lithium Ion batteries with a range of 300 miles (Zap X for example http://www.zapworld.com/). As far as I'm concerned they are full of it. I'm not buying another GM product until it's running on electric. Furthermore, I'm going to picket them at the next auto show.

I wouldn't use Le Mans as a comparison for purely engine power. A drag race would be a better indicator than that, or better yet a dyno. I assure you, pushrod engines do quite well on the performance front. The basic design is old, but it isn't necessarily bad. The LS6 and LS7 are excellent examples, and they are very competitive. OHC engines can show big improvements in small and medium displacement engines (GM has been using OHC in smaller engines for ages), but OHV still has excellent capabilities with a well-designed mid-to-high displacement V6 or V8. Plenty of torque and HP, excellent power curves. They each have their advantages in the bigger engines.

They have also proven they are capable of producing excellent engines using newer technologies, when such technology actually provides a benefit that outweighs the additional cost. More complicated engines can get more expensive. If you think GM is living in the past, you must not be aware that GM produce a Turbocharged+intercooled DOHC Direct Injected dual VVT 4-cylinder with twin balance shafts. 260HP and 260 ft/lb out of a bone stock 2.0L in a relatively inexpensive car is nothing to sneeze at. The modern versions of the Northstar are a pretty powerful all-aluminum DOHC design. They're developing an advanced full Hybrid using a turbocharged inline 3 cyl using lithium ion batteries. More and more GM engines use cylinder deactivation and VVT technology - and they can even do so with their "primitive" OHV engines.

Their new diesel engines will probably be pretty solid, if the last incarnation of the Duramax 6.6L is anything to go on. They're also going to be cleaner and more efficient. They might not be as advanced as some other diesel efforts, but they're making great strides in the right direction on both diesels and gas engines. The fact is that if you don't live in the USA, you don't understand how tight California emissions are becoming. It makes building a diesel for the European market look like childs play. It's sad when they do something positive and they recieve nothing but criticism for it. By reading some of these posts, it seems to me that if you replaced "GM" with "Honda" that nobody would have anything bad to say about it.

Sorry if I've rambled on, but people like to bash without a lot of rhyme or reason, or a whole lot of substance.

I believe the Duramax is a Isuzu engine. Isuzu has been making diesels for decades.

Why go with diesel? There are plenty of other options to get better fuel economy out of gas engines. EVO(electronic valve operation) is one that comes to mind. This tech can be used on todays(and even yesterdays) engines quite easily and improves economy AND performance at the same time.

"The last big win at Le Man was 40 years ago by Ford, and ever since America hasn't performed there to any fanfare at all."

You mean like the C5R and C6R basically taking the 1-2-3 positions at the American and European LeMans races over the last, say, 8 years?

You're retarded. DOHC engines are not the answer.

Show me ANY supercar that matches the Z06 in fuel economy and performance and cost. You will NOT find one.

GM is a great company, led by idiots until Wagoner, Helm, Pepper, and Lutz got there. The products they have recently released and have been releasing and will be releasing are nothing short of world class. Go DRIVE ONE and form some opinions for yourself before reading an article in Motortrend and taking it as the word of Christ.

You people piss me off.

Possible knee-jerk reaction to Honda's sudden strong backing of diesel engines?

I wonder if Vice Chairman Bob Lutz really believes his own bullshit. VW is coming out with a 2.0 liter 179 HP diesel motor with 235 pounds of tourque, that gets over 50 MPG. Yet GM is telling you that diesel motors will not allow car manufactures reach a fleet MPG of 36. Maybe they shoudn't be making 4.5 liter motors that are larger than most people need. How much you wanna bet the new VW diesels won't cost $4500 more than the gas counterparrt? Bob is feeding us bullshit.

Alex,

All the great technology you say GM has doesn't amount to a hill of beans when the rubber meets the road. Download the Excel spreadsheet of all the vehicle data at http://www.fueleconomy.gov. GM's hybrid vehicles are a joke. Oh boy, they're going to make hybrid SUVs that still can't even get 30 MPG. It's just marketing hype and vaporware.

The truth of the matter is that GM cares more about short term profits than about doing what's right. They are too busy trying to make money off large trucks and SUVs. I hope gas prices continue to skyrocket. GM will be hurting even more than they already are.

The German government will subsidise the high cost of diesel engines just like the Japanese do so that prices in the US will remain reasonable. This is why an $18k Honda Civic is really more like a $21k car. It explains some of the quality differential between Japanese and domestic autos, although that differential is decreasing.

'Alysandra:
The German government will subsidise the high cost of diesel engines just like the Japanese do so that prices in the US will remain reasonable. This is why an $18k Honda Civic is really more like a $21k car. It explains some of the quality differential between Japanese and domestic autos, although that differential is decreasing.'

Do you believe your own BS? Enough excuses, America. Try to make some decent cars, okay?

I know GM can do more than that, just check the South America GM and it will get it from there and from Isuzu and Suzuki.

I know GM can do more than that, just check the South America GM and it will get it from there and from Isuzu and Suzuki.

I have never heard maximum Bob speak before. But I have to say, that he and GM would be better off doing something smart and well done rather than whining about what it will cost.

Oh my goodness... Where to even begin.

Allen, the first LEV certified by California was a pushrod (GM 3.8L V6)

Jon, the EV1 cost billions of dollars to develop and maintain, the program cost GM millions of dollars every year to keep afloat, the OWNERS of the cars would never have paid their fair share to maintain the cars. They were always a lease because GM knew this from the start. What isn't mentioned in the movie is that GM was the ONLY company to even try.

Bill, you're right, the Duramax diesel is an Isuzu engine, but Dodge buys their diesels, too. They just buy louder, less efficient ones.

Mat, I love EVO, has anyone worked out the reliability issues?

Meh, you might be right, but they are talking about the same time period, aren't they? With GMs typical slower lead time in product, the product has probably been in the works, just the Announcement was made in reaction.

Wired, I'm sure Bob is taking into consideration Mark's point, that few people are going to pony up the extra purchase price (take VW's sales for example, is it still about 10 to 1 gas to diesel?) for the mileage benefit, therefore it won't affect CAFE much (weighted average)

Jon, you're right that historically, GM has been very short-term focused. Let's hope for global competition sake that they've figured it out.

Alysandra, I believe the age of national subsidizing is mostly over, except for the few countries that still manipulate their currency, not Germany or Japan btw.

If GM does fix things, it's going to be because of people like Wagoner and Lutz. I have to say I hope they do, it seems so many people are just dying to see them fail. I'm trying to figure out what they did to piss off so many people. However, they seem to have a hard time getting out of their own way.

I think GM, has to act now with diesel engines in the small trucks
like the Colorado and Cannyon not only in big truks.
There are people that have interest in small trucks also.

It doesn't cost that much to make reliable, clean, and efficient diesels. The technology has been around longer than gas engines. Anyone who says otherwise needs to go back and study their late 1800's, early 1900's history.

Actually, bwilliam, diesels do cost more to make for a couple of reasons. 1) emissions requirements require a lot of work, because even though the combustion process is simpler, and more fuel efficient, it's dirtier. 2) Because diesels are produced in smaller numbers (particularly in america, but it's true worldwide for cars and light trucks). they cost more on a per unit basis and even if they cost the same to develop, those costs would be spread over a smaller production run.

Otto designed the 4 stroke gasoline powered engine in 1876, Diesel modified the "Hot Bulb Engine" (ca 1886) to a working compression ignition peanut oil powered engine in 1892.

Rudolf Diesel might not have even invented the diesel design, but like so many other things, he who history remembers gets the glory.

These facts do not diminish your point that if they were built in the proper quantities and if we could just figure out how to fix the particulate emissions problem, diesels would make an excellent replacement for gasoline powered 4 strokes.

"few people are going to pony up the extra purchase price (take VW's sales for example, is it still about 10 to 1 gas to diesel?) for the mileage benefit"

Actually, one big reason (if not THE) for so few diesel VW's sold in the US compared to the gasoline versions is that they only allow so many to be sold in the US per year. I know several people who only own a gas powered VW because when they went to buy the quota for the TDI version of the model they wanted was already met.

Remy, That doesn't make any sense, as the diesel gets VW CAFE credits that they (and Audi, I'd assume) can use so they can sell more Q7s R8s and Touregs.

I tried to research this and find any credible source (I find you credible enough to at least look). I couldn't find one. The only references I found were in chat groups and TDI fan clubs. A couple actually said "my dealer/salesperson said there is a quota..." One said "The Oil companies were trying to get congress to INCREASE emission standards... "WHAT?

I imagine if there is a quota, it's imposed by the dealers who are afraid to order too many. This is the same reason it's hard to find a sporty car with lots of options and a manual transmission anywhere, because dealers are all afraid to order the extra pedal in the floor. Nobody wants to be holding the last of a particular car.

Again, if you've got a source, I'd love to read it, I will write my congressman/VW USA to (try to, probably in futility) get it fixed.

"Biil" Owens (looks like you typed that one in a bit fast :P)

I realize that the current Duramax diesels are Isuzu-made. The 4.5Ls will be GM-made. However, it isn't hard to believe they will build on their experiences with the Isuzu engines. That's part of why I used an "If", as only time will tell.

Jon "All the great technology you say GM has doesn't amount to a hill of beans when the rubber meets the road. Download the Excel spreadsheet of all the vehicle data at http://www.fueleconomy.gov. GM's hybrid vehicles are a joke. Oh boy, they're going to make hybrid SUVs that still can't even get 30 MPG. It's just marketing hype and vaporware."

I didn't say they got great mileage. I didn't say their CURRENT hybrids kicked butt. They lag on fuel economy on many of their vehicles. That doesn't mean they don't build good cars or good engines, they just don't typically have MPG as their strong point.

I was primarily pointing out was a couple of things that previous posters didn't seem to realize. Like DOHC not always being superior to OHV, and the fact that GM *does* have advanced engine designs and makes use of advanced techology. Also, they're making improvements. Why bash them for improving? Pointing out these things was the purpose of my rambling on earlier, although I probably could have condensed it into bullets if I didn't so enjoy typing. ;)

I'm not sure about economical feasibility of diesel powered cars in USA. Even here in Europe there is a general agreement that diesel car is profitable for its owner only with 20.000+ miles annual mileage. In USA where gasoline cost almost nothing it will be much higher. How many people are actually having such mileage? Ten percent? Even less?

Why diesel? I know some people who've bought them for the increased milage. But I know others who've bought them for the option of burning biodiesel in the future.

Dusan wrote:
I'm not sure about economical feasibility of diesel powered cars in USA. Even here in Europe there is a general agreement that diesel car is profitable for its owner only with 20.000+ miles annual mileage. In USA where gasoline cost almost nothing it will be much higher. How many people are actually having such mileage? Ten percent? Even less?

You seem to have no real understanding of the size of the USA.
Furthermore, if fuel here is a bargain compared to where you live, better mileage still equates to savings in cost of fuel.
If I can save $1000 or so a year in fuel costs, why not? I can probably make back the extra cost of the diesel engine in a couple years and still have a automobile that will probably run longer than a gasoline powered car.

People who say pushrod engines are old tech.
They were invented after the OHC layout which was in around 1910,

Do some history lessons before bagging out OHV engines.