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Mercedes-Benz has released full specs and photos of the new 2008 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG sedan. The car will feature a 6.3L V8 with 451 horsepower and 443 lb-ft of torque.
The C63 will have a top speed of 155mph and a 0-60 time of 4.5 seconds.
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PRESS RELEASE
THE NEW MERCEDES-BENZ C63 AMG
A C-Class As Never Before
Note: Release includes European specifications
Affalterbach – In the German Touring Car Championships (DTM) the new AMG C-Class ensures exciting motor racing at the highest level, and now its road-going sister model is celebrating its debut: the new C63 AMG. Its AMG 6.3-litre V8 engine develops a peak output of 451-hp and a maximum torque of 443 lb-ft. – unrivalled figures in this segment. Accordingly the C63 AMG accelerates from zero to 62 mph in 4.5 seconds, while its top speed is electronically limited to 155 mph. In conjunction with an all-new front axle, speed-sensitive AMG sports steering and the new, 3-stage ESPÒ, the AMG sports suspension ensures both outstanding driving enjoyment and exemplary handling dynamics. A combination of expressive design, a decidedly sporty interior and a high level of everyday practicality makes the C63 AMG a unique high-performance car. The C63 AMG will make its U.S. retail debut in spring 2008.
With the new C63 AMG, Mercedes-AMG GmbH is making a confident statement to mark the 40th birthday of the company. The new V8 flagship model is now the fifth generation of the AMG C-Class, whose family tree goes back to the C36 AMG of 1993 – the very first vehicle developed as a cooperative venture between Daimler-Benz and AMG.
Merely the appearance of the C63 AMG is impressive enough, with its wide, road-hugging stance. The new hood with its prominent power domes conceals the independently developed AMG 6.3-litre V8 engine, which develops an impressive 451-hp at 6800 rpm from a displacement of 6208 cubic centimeters. In this respect the C63 AMG comes very close to the 464 or so-horsepower delivered by the AMG C-Class racing touring car in the DTM series. This high output also benefits the power-to-weight ratio, which is a very favorable 3.6 kg/hp.
The maximum torque rating of 443 lb-ft. at 5000 rpm is unrivalled in this class, and the torque curve is equally impressive: from 2000 to 6250 rpm the driver always has more than 369 lb-ft. on tap – ideal for powerful acceleration in any engine speed range.
V8 with thoroughbred racing technology and a designer exhaust note
Introduced in 2005, the V8 engine is installed in numerous AMG high-performance cars and excels with its thoroughbred motor sports technology.
Perfect cylinder charging is guaranteed by the vertical arrangement of the intake and exhaust ducts, as well as the magnesium variable intake manifold with two integral throttle flaps. Other high-tech features include variable camshaft adjustment, four-valve technology with bucket-type tappets, a particularly rigid aluminum crankcase of closed-deck design and the low-friction TWAS coating on the cylinder contact surfaces.
Among the particular strengths of the AMG V8 engine are outstanding responsiveness and enormous pulling power – by virtue of its large displacement, it develops over 30 percent more torque than comparable engines in this performance class. Electronically controlled fuel delivery is another reason for the outstanding agility and responsiveness to movements of the accelerator. With its sporty AMG sound, which was designed-in during a series of sophisticated trials, this eight-cylinder powerpack from Affalterbach offers the unique excitement of a fast-revving, naturally aspirated engine – an audible and immediate experience whether at low, medium or high engine speeds.
Key figures for the C63 AMG at a glance:
C63 AMG
Cylinder arrangement/
valves per cylinder: V8/4
Displacement cc: 6208
Bore/stroke mm: 102.2/94.6
Compression ratio: 11.3 : 1
Output hp at rpm: 451 @ 6800
Max. torque Nm at rpm: 443 @ 5000
Acceleration 0-62 mph: 4.5
Top speed mph: 155*
*Electronically governed
In the interests of optimal reliability, the C63 AMG has a particularly efficient water cooling system and large engine and transmission oil coolers. Located behind the large apertures in the AMG front apron, these coolers ensure non-critical operating temperatures at all times – even under the extreme stress of the racetrack.
Like all AMG high-performance engines, the AMG 6.3-litre V8 is built in the AMG engine shop on the traditional "one man, one engine" principle. This means that one technician is responsible for hand-assembling a complete V8 engine to the highest quality standards – which is attested to by his signature on the AMG engine plate.
AMG SPEEDSHIFT PLUS 7G-TRONIC with blipping function
This high-performance eight-cylinder engine has the perfect partner in the form of the AMG SPEEDSHIFT PLUS 7G-TRONIC transmission. Equipped with AMG steering wheel shift paddles and three driving modes, the seven-speed automatic transmission allows a decidedly sporty or more comfort-oriented style of driving according to the driver's preference. The different modes - "S" (Sport), " C" (Comfort) and "M" (Manual) differ in their shift characteristics and speed: gearshifts in "S" mode are around 30 percent faster than in "C", and no less than around 50 percent faster in "M" mode. Pressing a button is sufficient to activate the desired driving program.
The new C63 AMG is the very first AMG car to feature an automatic throttle-blipping function during downshifts. This not only enhances the driver's emotional experience – the almost completely jolt-free downshifting process also reduces the load-change responses and has a particularly positive effect when braking before bends on the racetrack.
Redesigned Front Axle with 35-millimeter Wider Track
The C63 AMG owes its outstanding handling dynamics to the AMG sports suspension and an all-new three-link front axle design. The stiff configuration of the springs and gas-pressure shock absorbers ensures optimal road contact and low body movements when negotiating serpentine bends at speed. The new front axle has a 35-millimeter wider track – visible by the more widely flared wheel arches – and therefore ensures lower dynamic wheel loads when cornering. A number of features make for substantially more stability and precision in all driving situations: the redesigned wheel location at the front axle is 100 percent more rigid, leading to a considerable improvement in steering precision. Another benefit makes itself felt when braking, as the new wheel location ensures an immediate response even under high dynamic stresses.
In combination with completely newly configured elasto-kinematics, the new wheel location provides greatly improved lateral dynamics and allows the driver of the C63 AMG to benefit from significantly higher cornering speeds. A larger torsion bar stabilizer, new head bearings and dampers with rebound buffer springs further enhance this stability and precision. Steering feedback is also improved by the new kinematics. The speed-sensitive AMG sports steering has a ratio of 13.5:1, but feels more direct as a result of moving what is termed the instant center of motion at the front axle.
The multi-link independent rear suspension has also been thoroughly re-engineered, with a twelve-millimeter wider track and more camber leading to improved cornering performance. Reinforced drive shafts and drive joints increase fatigue strength and round off the improvements to the rear suspension of the C63 AMG.
The completely newly developed AMG sports suspension combines outstanding handling dynamics with the long-distance comfort to be expected of a Mercedes – which also means that the C63 AMG has the characteristic virtues of a genuine AMG.
18-inch AMG light-alloy wheels, 19-inch wheel/tire combination on request
The C63 AMG is appropriately fitted with new, 18-inch AMG light-alloy wheels in a five-spoke design. Painted in titanium grey, these high-sheen wheels in size 8.0 x 18 and 8.5 x 18 are shod with wide-base tires in size 235/40 R 18 (front) and 255/35 R 18 (rear). Even more dynamic handling is made possible by the optionally available 19-inch AMG light-alloy wheels in a multi-spoke design. The front wheels are in size 8.0 x 19 with 235/35 tires, with 9.0 x 19 wheels and 255/30 R 19 tires at the rear.
Generously dimensioned AMG high-performance braking system
Internally ventilated and perforated disc brakes all-round reside behind the spokes of the AMG wheels. The front brakes have size 360 x 36-millimeter discs with six-piston fixed calipers, while deceleration at the rear is by 330 x 26-millimeter discs with four-piston fixed calipers. The AMG high-performance braking system is characterized by great sensitivity and high fade-resistance.
3-stage ESPÒ with Sport function as a new feature in the C63 AMG
The Electronic Stability Program ESPÒ is specifically configured for the dynamic performance of the C63 AMG, which is the first AMG model to feature the 3-stage ESPÒ with a Sport function. This system offers three different control settings, and is a logical further development of the AMG ESPÒ philosophy. The ESP key in the center console enables the driver to choose between three modes - "ESP ON",
"ESP SPORT" and "ESP OFF" – the currently active mode is shown in the central display of the AMG instrument cluster.
In "ESP ON" mode, the onset of handling instability leads to braking intervention at one or more of the wheels, accompanied by a reduction in engine torque. Briefly pressing the ESP key activates "ESP SPORT". In this mode the braking intervention to counter oversteer or understeer, as well as the accompanying reduction in engine torque, allows a higher dynamic threshold and, for instance, corresponding drift angles – which means that the driver of the C63 AMG benefits from considerably more active driving pleasure. ESPÒ is restored to its normal function as soon as the brake pedal is operated.
Prolonged pressure on the ESP key activates "ESP OFF". There is no intervention to control the handling dynamics, and no reduction in engine torque – thus increasing driving enjoyment even further. "ESP OFF" should only be used by experienced drivers on dedicated racetracks. In this mode too, operating the brake pedal restores all the normal functions of ESPÒ.
The system's traction logic is active in all three ESPÒ modes. If one of the drive wheels threatens to spin, specific brake pressure is applied to create the effect of a mechanical differential lock. This means that the engine power is optimally transferred to the road.
More distinctive exterior design than ever before
It is not only in technological but also in visual terms that the new C63 AMG is more distinctively different from the standard C-Class than ever before. The front end is dominated by the new bonnet with its two pronounced power domes, as well as the trademark AMG radiator grille with a central star and two louvers with chrome inserts. The honeycomb pattern of the grille is also reflected in the large air dams of the new, athletically contoured front apron which forms part of the AMG-specific bodystyling. The fog lamps with chrome surrounds are spaced well apart, acting together with the flared front wheel arches to accentuate the width of the car – with the striking transition from the front apron to the wings leaving a particularly strong impression. The side air vents in the front apron serve to expel the hot air from the oil coolers. If the C63 AMG is specified with the optional bi-xenon headlamps or the Intelligent Light System, the headlamps are also dark-tinted.
Eye-catching features when viewed from the side include the 18-inch AMG light-alloy wheels, the harmoniously integrated "6.3 AMG" lettering on the front wing and the AMG side skirts. At the rear the standard LED rear lights, the AMG rear apron with its black diffuser insert and three pronounced diffuser fins, as well as the AMG sports exhaust system with two chrome twin tailpipes, provide further visual highlights that are hallmarks of the brand. The AMG spoiler lip on the boot lid reduces lift and ensures greater handling stability at high speeds.
AMG interior with new sports seats and performance steering wheel
This decidedly sporty theme is continued in the interior of the C63 AMG, which now has special AMG sports seats with integral head restraints for the first time. The seats not only feature a new design with cross-piping and AMG lettering, but also an adaptive backrest with adjustments for the side bolsters and lumbar support. Perfect handling control is assured with the new AMG performance steering wheel in a three-spoke design, which has a rim diameter of 365 millimeters and a flattened lower section. The upper section is covered in perforated leather, and two silver AMG shift paddles enable the gears to be shifted manually.
AMG main menu with a wide variety of displays
The trademark AMG instrument cluster in a tubular design features newly styled dials, AMG-specific lettering and a new night-time design. Eye-catching details include the 320 km/h speedometer scale, AMG lettering, red needles and the "6.3 V8" logo in the rev counter. The AMG main menu in the central display allows numerous settings, with "Warm Up", "Set Up" and "RACE" modes activated via buttons on the AMG performance steering wheel. "Warm Up" displays the engine oil and coolant temperature, "Set Up" the current ESPÒ mode and the transmission mode "S", "C" or "M". "RACE" mode makes the RACETIMER available, with which the driver is able to measure lap times on a racetrack.
Development and design of the C63 AMG
Creating a new car is a complex undertaking, and this certainly applies to the new Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG whose conceptual phase commenced in 2004. This began with the fundamental feasibility study known as packaging. The new C63 AMG was first constructed as a digital model, the engine, cooling system, fuel system, drive train and axles being "married" with the bodyshell to examine buildability. In spring 2005 the first 1:4-scale design models were produced on the basis of drawings and computer images, and in addition the first testing & development vehicles were already built on the basis of the preceding C 55 AMG. This made it possible to test major assemblies such as the drive train, brakes and axles.
The latest onboard measuring technology provided valuable data such as engine oil, coolant and brake disc temperatures – but other aspects of interest were lap times e.g. on the north loop of the Nürburgring, as well as measurable, precisely defined handling maneuvers to provide comparisons between different axle configurations. These tests were accompanied by extensive aerodynamic tests on the bodyshell of the C63 AMG, and it was only then that the final design was approved.
Following approval of the concept in the autumn of 2005, the first fully-fledged prototypes of the C63 AMG were built. At the same time the high-performance saloon was also produced as a digital prototype. Computer simulations made it possible for the "real" development prototypes to exhibit a very high level of maturity during the first rollout. These simulations included the most important vehicle functions, such as handling dynamics, the engine and drive train, bodyshell durability, suspension performance, passive safety, the engine's thermal characteristics and performance/fuel consumption.
From Affalterbach to every climatic zone on earth
The standardized and highly sophisticated AMG development and test program for the C63 AMG began in summer 2005. Over the next couple of years around 20 vehicles were dispatched all over the world from Mercedes-AMG GmbH in Affalterbach, to be subjected to strenuous tests in every climatic zone.
Test, analyze and optimize – that is the creed of the specialists at AMG to achieve the objectives laid down in the book of specifications. Another decisive aspect was an ongoing dialogue between Design and Development, so that any necessary technical modifications were also implemented in design terms.
The major test stages at a glance:
Development testing of the engine, transmission and drive train
· Altitude tests in Denver, Colorado (USA), Lesotho (South Africa), Mont Ventoux (France) and Granada (Spain)
· High temperature tests in Death Valley, California (USA), Upington (South Africa), Idiada proving ground (Spain) and Phoenix, Arizona (USA)
· Driving trials in Los Angeles, California (USA)
· Cold temperature tests in Arctic Falls (Sweden)
Development testing of the cooling and fuel systems
· Various driving trials on the high-speed tracks in Nardo (Italy) and Papenburg
· Trials in Upington (South Africa) and Death Valley, California (USA)
· Tests in the DaimlerChrysler wind tunnel
Development testing of the braking and control systems
· Brake testing on the high-speed track in Nardo (Italy) and the Grossglockner Alpine pass (Austria)
· Testing of dynamic control systems on the Idiada proving ground (Spain), in Arjeplog (Sweden) and on the Boxberg proving ground
In addition various endurance trials are run, with the aim of simulating the vehicle's entire lifecycle under the most severe conditions:
· North loop of the Nürburgring: The car's drive train, suspension, wheel location system, dynamic control systems, tires and brakes are tested on the world's most demanding racetrack.
· Long-term testing on different roads: All the components and systems are tested together in everyday operation. Loaded up to their permitted gross vehicle weight, the test cars are put through a precisely defined test program on country roads, motorways and in city traffic.
· Endurance testing on the DaimlerChrysler proving ground in Papenburg: Extreme acceleration and braking manoeuvres with a high proportion of full load operation, making extreme demands on the cooling and fuel delivery systems.
· Endurance testing in the Swabian Alb region: The vehicles are loaded up to their permitted gross vehicle weight and driven on country roads with numerous uphill and downhill gradients, placing extreme loads on the transmission and drive train.
· "Heide" endurance testing: (named after the poor post-war roads across the "Lüneburger Heide"): 2000 kilometers of extreme trials on the test track or on state-of-the-art test rigs. In this case the focus of the developers is on the durability of the drive train components, the entire bodyshell and the integral subframe on which the front axle, steering and engine are mounted. The test cars are loaded up to their permitted gross vehicle weight.
These tests are supplemented with extensive crash simulations and real crash tests, to provide the necessary evidence for country-specific certifications without which no registration would be possible. The end result is final vehicle approval – the green light for the launch of the C63 AMG.
Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG
Engine
No. of cylinders/arrangement: 8/V, 4 valves per cylinder
Displacement cc: 6208
Bore x stroke mm: 102.2 x 94.6
Rated output hp: 451 at 6800 rpm
Rated torque Nm: 443 at 5000 rpm
Compression ratio: 11.3 : 1
AMG SPEEDSHIFT PLUS 7G-TRONIC
7-speed automatic
Ratios
Final drive: 2.85
1st gear: 4.38
2nd gear: 2.86
3rd gear: 1.92
4th gear: 1.37
5th gear: 1.00
6th gear: 0.82
7th gear: 0.73
Reverse: -3.42/-2.23
Running gear
Front axle: Three-link suspension, anti-dive, coil springs, gas-pressure shock absorbers, stabilizer
Rear axle: Multi-link independent suspension, anti-squat and anti-lift, coil springs, gas-pressure shock absorbers, stabilizer
Braking system
Disc brakes all round, internally ventilated and blind-drilled, foot-operated parking brake at rear, ABS, Brake Assist, 3-stage ESP®
Steering
Speed-sensitive rack-and-pinion steering, steering damper
Wheels
Front: 8.0 J x 18; rear: 9.0 J x 18
Tires
Front: 235/40 ZR 18; rear: 255/35 ZR 18
Dimensions and weights
Wheelbase mm: 2765
Track width front/rear mm: 1568/1525
Overall length mm: 4725
Overall width mm: 1795
Overall height mm: 1438
Turning circle m: 10.8
Boot capacity*: 475
Kerb weight acc. to EC kg: 1730
Payload kg: 505
Perm. gross vehicle weight kg: 2200
Tank capacity/reserve l: 66/8
All figures are provisional; * Acc. to VDA measuring method; ** Electronically governed

Comments (43)
I still don't like it, why???
wtf I hate these tiptronic transmission, give me standard and M3 has that.
Posted by HanZ | July 4, 2007 11:10 AM
Posted on July 4, 2007 11:10
To have to go to 6.3 litre (and only 8 cylinders) to take on a 4.2 litre M3, it goes to show the lack of depth of engine technology within Mercedes. The increase power is gonna be negated by the sharp increase in kerb weight, which will further reduce it's dynamics.
Posted by Clar | July 4, 2007 11:44 AM
Posted on July 4, 2007 11:44
To Clar:
The increase in curb weight will easily be negated by the extra 148 ft/lbs of torque the larger displacement engine will make. And as any road racer will tell you, having torque available from a broader RPM range is what helps drive a car out of corners....as long as the suspension is up to the task.
Two different ways to get to the same result really...It will be interesting to see what the comparisons say when both cars are released...
Posted by yahoo | July 4, 2007 12:24 PM
Posted on July 4, 2007 12:24
6.3L in this is simply a joke. Would much rather have an m3 or a 550i, new hybrid supra...
Posted by bc | July 4, 2007 4:09 PM
Posted on July 4, 2007 16:09
"The increase in curb weight will easily be negated by the extra 148 ft/lbs..." in a straight line. 5 corners and your tires are cooked. If you look at the videos of it hitting the ring it looks like a pig and the tires are screeming in agony!
German cars are supposed to be built for driving dynamics not the drag strip. Anyone can drop a 454 or a 427 engine in anything and go really fast in a straight line.
Posted by /a | July 4, 2007 4:26 PM
Posted on July 4, 2007 16:26
"To have to go to 6.3 litre (and only 8 cylinders) to take on a 4.2 litre M3, it goes to show the lack of depth of engine technology within Mercedes."
Too true, however the M3 only has a 4 liter (the Audi RS4 has the 4.2 liter V8). While the RS4 has never been able to match the M3 for speed (I'm talking the previous gen M3 here), it at least had AWD to allow it to corner faster and keep up with or (depending on the driver) beat the M3 on a track. Without AWD, I don't think that this C63 AMG will be able to keep up with the RS4 and M3.
Posted by Remy LeBeau | July 4, 2007 7:20 PM
Posted on July 4, 2007 19:20
Agree with /a: their is such a thing as too much torque. IF the torque output is to high and at the top end of the RPM range, you are just going to bake your tires in corners, but it does not automatically follow that you will run the track faster.
In the straight line I can see the Benz easily taking the new M3. I can also see Benz using weight saving materials to keep the engine weight low.
Still, I'm going to doubt how well those crispy tires will run the track. We'll just have to see how they do when they hit the street.
Posted by Allen | July 4, 2007 7:24 PM
Posted on July 4, 2007 19:24
Honestly people who cares.
Who is going to be able to afford one of these anyway?
More stories on the American Muscle cars please.
Posted by Peanut | July 4, 2007 10:05 PM
Posted on July 4, 2007 22:05
Many people can afford it. And many will buy it.
Posted by /a | July 4, 2007 11:32 PM
Posted on July 4, 2007 23:32
I just wish they would offer a manual or DSG type gearbox in their V8+ powered cars.
Posted by Noya | July 5, 2007 4:58 AM
Posted on July 5, 2007 04:58
i've read above about too much torque...
ESP specified in the article will handle that.
still....
this is too expensive for my goals. :)
Posted by adrian | July 5, 2007 6:23 AM
Posted on July 5, 2007 06:23
To /a:
Engine size aside - because who cares how large an engine is if the weight is the same right? Let's say the MB guys can make the C63 the same weight as the M3....you're going to tell me that having extra torque is bad?? Please....you either change the tires, or get a better driver. It's not like this MB has 800 ft/lbs of torque that's smoking the tires on every gear shift. The extra 148 ft/lbs will get it around the track faster and easier. You say 5 corners? I say 15 laps....
I'm sure the guys at Porsche would love to hear you tell them that their 911 Turbo needs to cut back on the amount of torque, because its 457ft/lbs is too much and it's tires can't handle it.
Hmm, I can't remember, but is Lamborghini still German? What kind of torque numbers is their Gallardo putting out these days?
Point being: There are different ways to make power - personally, I'd take an N/A large displacement engine over a forced induction engine any day. To argue that a car makes TOO much power c'mon.
Posted by yahoo | July 5, 2007 8:49 AM
Posted on July 5, 2007 08:49
The only people who can have too much torque are those who can't control their right foot. :)
That said, there usually is a trade-off between weight and power. More power generally means more weight, which means heavier suspension components to control that weight, often at the expense of handling finesse, etc.
The final judgement of who found the best balance of weight/power/handling is the race track. And even there, different people (and companies) have different tracks in mind. Some tracks favor pure power, others demand handling prowess.
Regardless, until some times are posted, any arguments are fluff.
Posted by kw | July 5, 2007 9:55 AM
Posted on July 5, 2007 09:55
please santa, please give me a car with too much torque. in a smallish car. with a highly developed traction and stability controt that i can turn off and melt the tyres if my mood and budget allows. And if i'm really good will you line me up against someone that has not enough torque. I know its wierd but i get a kick out of stuff like that.
Luv, Peter the nice.
Posted by peta | July 5, 2007 10:10 AM
Posted on July 5, 2007 10:10
to yahoo:
I never said that it has too much HP or torque. I said it's going to be too heavy. I love high output cars! I just don't think they are going to be able to get the balance on it to be competitive with the ///M3.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yS-nth9_Ug
Posted by ///a | July 5, 2007 10:17 AM
Posted on July 5, 2007 10:17
plow away
Posted by ///a | July 5, 2007 11:36 AM
Posted on July 5, 2007 11:36
No, lets not hear more about the American Muscle Cars. I cannot afford the gas and repair bills for them.
Posted by Allen | July 5, 2007 11:43 AM
Posted on July 5, 2007 11:43
"If one of the drive wheels threatens to spin, specific brake pressure is applied to create the effect of a mechanical differential lock."
Crap... No limited slip. Well, at least it doesn't sound like it'll be a $9000 option like on the E63.
Posted by Jason Litka | July 5, 2007 12:01 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 12:01
Allen:
At least european cars go round corners.
The new mustang has what amounts to an I-beam for rear suspension, because ford wanted to keep the manufacturing costs low, but makes it handle even more like a tank.
You wouldn't ever see that on a euro/jap car.
Posted by Niz | July 5, 2007 12:45 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 12:45
My '03 Cobra goes 'round corners nicely even with 700 ft/bs @ 2000 RPM. I don't care if you are in a Evo, BMW, or Mustang, if you have 500+ ft/lbs to the wheels and stomp the gas, you're going off the road. 'Handling' and 'twisties' are just excuses people make because their penis feels short from not having enough power so they try to make up for it else were. Having power doesn't mean you can't handle, but it doesn't mean you can use it all the time no matter what kind of car.
I had to brake yesterday coasting at 60mph on the 270 deg off ramp loop because someone in front of me in an import was scared.
Posted by Chris | July 5, 2007 1:59 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 13:59
To /a:
I agree..MB has been playing catch up with BMW since the beginning of time when it comes to correct balance/stability in their cars. The HP/torque will mean nothing if the car can't handle...but lets just hope that MB got it right this time! Regardless if you're an MB fan or BMWphile, you want the two manufacturers to be neck & neck...that only means better cars for us while they spend the money on R&D trying to out-do each other.
It's an exciting time...it'll be even more exciting in another 4 years when I can actually afford to buy a used one!!
Posted by yahoo | July 5, 2007 4:23 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 16:23
LOL... a big lol.too much torque or not...it's clear...Mercedes without the help of AMG would have been like a plymouth or an oldsmobile.Even now you can see cars with small engine and huge power.Let's take the case of koenigsegg ccx.What engine does it have?6.3? i don't think so... and still...it run's like mad.Or... uh uh... don't say it... The new audi tt with 510hp?306km/h,,,, now that's madness... and still no huge Engine? Ok... ... let's be honest.... The only thing i like on an american muscle is the sound and the straight line....but... they should consider taking the breaking package from the merc... because it would be bad to have a corner after the finish line.... so... good bye uncle sam..They have one car to worth admiration...the C6...and it's kind of build with europeans and japs... Face it... this car.... is like an Mr.Olympia forced to dance ballet.
Conclusion.. the new Nissan skyline or the new toyota supra... well prepaired from the tuners will make this monster eat dust.
Posted by Enz0 | July 5, 2007 4:27 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 16:27
The only problem with small engines and high boost and power is fuel octane, and due to all the enviroweenie regulations and fuel blends, we don't have the luxury of having high performance small displacement turbo engines in the USA.
But then again if we had 100 octane at the pump in the USA, I wouldn't care about a small 2L engine with 20 psi, I'd want a 6L engine with 20 psi.
Show me one Supra or Skyline making 1000+ HP with only 91 octane... not with C16 race gas, 35 psi, no cats, and meth injection. There isn't one, just remember that when you compare them to something like this 6.3L, because this 6.3L will be making that power all day every day on pump gas.
Posted by Chris | July 5, 2007 4:39 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 16:39
You guys have to remember this is a detuned 6.2L V8 that is used on most AMGs. If Brabus could squeeze 550hp from it with simply high-performance cats, a sport air filter and a remapped ECU, I'm definitely putting my money on this AMG C-class beast.
Posted by Nubbin | July 5, 2007 4:52 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 16:52
Chris your Cobra may go around the twistys "just fine" but car with a lot less HP and Torque can still go though them a lot better, The new mustang's lack of IRS is not a huge deal, the car has tons of other issues with handling like spring rate, travel, roll, and more, The new GT got hammered around a track by an Evo in a review I read, figure about 3:21 for the GT, and 3:13.5 seconds for an Evo, The Lotus Elise with it's 190 bhp and almost no torque managed to scoot around the track in about 3:09.2, beating a 400 hp Corvette C6 by just a hair.
Having said that the handling on a current gen Mustang really is not the horror story some people make it out to be, it's IMHO a very good car that does exactly what it was designed to, it has nice thrust, looks good, is comfortable to drive, it cruises well on the highway, and handles well enough in the twistys to be fun to drive.
this Merc seems fine, and IMHO is pretty good looking. having more torque is a good thing, the real question it how it will handle compared to the M3 and the RS4, both of which are at the top of the market this Merc is going to compete in.
Posted by Travis | July 5, 2007 5:21 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 17:21
The point was, giving the Elise 200 more HP isn't going to make it suddenly suck in the twistys. You can keep your foot out of it and do the same on the twistys, but you can go a lot faster in the straights. Being able to handle the twistys with your foot to the floor isn't something to brag about when you don't have the power to break the wheels loose.
Power and handling are not mutually exclusive, you can have both, that's all I'm saying.
Posted by Chris | July 5, 2007 5:33 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 17:33
Otherwise I could go around a corner at 25 mph in 6th gear lugging it hard and say my car owns the twistys because I can be full throttle the whole time through the corner. Doesn't mean squat.
Posted by Chris | July 5, 2007 5:58 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 17:58
I still say a supercharged Saleen convertible is more fun to drive, looks better and costs way less.
Posted by Luscious | July 5, 2007 6:08 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 18:08
"Show me one Supra or Skyline making 1000+ HP with only 91 octane..."
I don't know of Supra's or Skyline's (because I don't know anyone who owns one), but I've seen more than a few Civic's, RSX's, and Integra's with OVER 1,000hp running on 91 octane.
"Power and handling are not mutually exclusive, you can have both, that's all I'm saying."
Very true. The Elise / Exige rely on very low weight and a great chassis to provide the handling that makes them so fast on a track. I'd love to see an Exige with 300 hp (or more) and at least 250 lb/ft of torque. I might even bet it could run a lap faster than a new Z06. Maybe.
Posted by Remy LeBeau | July 5, 2007 6:23 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 18:23
No way a Civic or RSX is making 1000 HP on 91 octane unless its got a low compression high cubic inch engine in it. No way in hell, as the boost required to make that much power on a 4 cyl would destroy the engine with detonation at the boost level required.
It's impossible as it is on a 2.6L or 3.0L straight 6, much less a sub 2.0L 4 cyl.
The reason is the only way to flow 1000 HP worth of air in such a small displacement engine relies on 35 psi and higher boost. Unlike increasing displacement, boost increases cylinder compression pressure and heat, thus causing detonation, hence the requirement for higher octane.
They were either lying about their power, or lying about what kind of gas they were using. Or they dyno'ed one time at 1000 HP with race gas on a dyno and brag that they have a 1000+ HP 35+psi car, even thought they drive around on the street with 20 psi and pump gas at 450 HP.
Not saying you can't make 1000 HP out of a 4 cyl, but it's too much of a squeeze and it sure as hell isn't happening on 91 octane.
Posted by Chris | July 5, 2007 6:47 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 18:47
Chris what I am saying is this, with only 190 hp, and very low torque numbers, giving up as much as 20 mph in the straights on a race track, the Elise was still faster to lap than a 400 hp Corvette, and it was several seconds quicker than a Shelby GT 500. Against cars with 400 and 500 HP, where do you think the Elise was making up all that time?
And Remy The last track review I saw had the Exige with it's 220 bhp engine nipping at the heels of the Z06.
Posted by Travis | July 5, 2007 8:35 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 20:35
Lotus Elise? 1000HP out of a straight 6 or 4? I think the problem here is that this specific AMG is targeted toward a complete different type of audience. If those fanbois already set their sights on the new GT-R, M3, LF-A, or even the IS-F, of course nothing that this sports sedan could offer would ever change their minds.
Like the Audi RS4 and RS6, the C63 AMG obviously is built mainly for "high speed Autobahn" cruising and a comfortable "daily-driver," not a purposely built "track-day" plastic car like the Lotus Elise or a Corvette Z06. I know Mercedes is currently testing this car extensively on Nurburgring's Nordschleife, but bringing up Lotus Elise, Z06, or GT-R to this discussion is just too apple to orange in my opinion. >_>
Posted by Nubbin | July 5, 2007 8:36 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 20:36
Again, how much faster would the Elise be if it was faster than the Z06 in the straights too?
And how nice would it be when you are not at the track taking on the twisties, but just driving though town* to be able to take off from a light or stop signs or overtaking on a stretch of road when some ass hat with more power is picking on you and won't let you pass, with total confidence and assurance?
*(where, coincidentally, roads run N-S and E-W in a grid of *gasp* straights!)
All I'm saying is give me both. Doing 0-60 in 10 seconds is not an acceptable trade off for handling the corners 3 seconds faster in the city. Not that the Elise is that slow, but give it 400 HP instead of 190 and it would beat most cars off the light as well, and *still* carve the corners easily.
Posted by Chris | July 5, 2007 8:47 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 20:47
"And Remy The last track review I saw had the Exige with it's 220 bhp engine nipping at the heels of the Z06."
The last one I read (which was done very recently) put it about 10 seconds or so behind the Z06.
"Not that the Elise is that slow, but give it 400 HP instead of 190 and it would beat most cars off the light as well, and *still* carve the corners easily."
With a 0-60 time of less than 5 seconds, the Elise / Exige DOES beat most cars off the line. Not all, but most cars on the road can't hit 60 in under 5 seconds.
Posted by Remy LeBeau | July 5, 2007 9:57 PM
Posted on July 5, 2007 21:57
the AMG V8 is not just another lump of iron.it wqs designed to be lightweight and compact, as all thoroghbred race motors are.magnesium inlet and alloy crankcase are mentionened in the article. the front axle is a long way forward leaving alot of rom behind the axle to fit a lump of engine within the wheelbase. the positioning of the extra weight is just as important as the weight itself. the c class appears to have been designed with the v8 in mind rather than an afterthought so compromises are minimised. the c range has been universaly lauded for its ride handling balance. i find it hard to imagne how the additon of a few extra horsepower laden kilos will change this. if anything the extra track width and horsepower may help the car fulfill its potential.
Posted by peta | July 6, 2007 4:23 AM
Posted on July 6, 2007 04:23
the AMG V8 is not just another lump of iron.it wqs designed to be lightweight and compact, as all thoroghbred race motors are.magnesium inlet and alloy crankcase are mentionened in the article. the front axle is a long way forward leaving alot of rom behind the axle to fit a lump of engine within the wheelbase. the positioning of the extra weight is just as important as the weight itself. the c class appears to have been designed with the v8 in mind rather than an afterthought so compromises are minimised. the c range has been universaly lauded for its ride handling balance. i find it hard to imagne how the additon of a few extra horsepower laden kilos will change this. if anything the extra track width and horsepower may help the car fulfill its potential.
Posted by peta | July 6, 2007 4:23 AM
Posted on July 6, 2007 04:23
"The Elise / Exige rely on very low weight and a great chassis to provide the handling that makes them so fast on a track. I'd love to see an Exige with 300 hp (or more) and at least 250 lb/ft of torque. I might even bet it could run a lap faster than a new Z06. Maybe."
Take a look on Ariel Atom with an engine from Honda Civic. The car has an weight/power ratio better than Enzo Ferrari and goes like crazy too.300hp from an small engine...I saw on internet an ariel atom with 400hp from the same engine.It's strange..a car that costs 20k british pounds it's on a race track below pagani zonda?What about that mr kawasaki?
Search on google and you will find an elise with 400hp.Take a look on Noble GT also.Tsuchya from BMI said something very real. "Power isn't everything if you can't control it" I saw an RX7 with 300hp beating the crap of an Skyline with 500hp and AWD" On ht Top Gear show mr.Clarkson said that the skyline has the most advanced traction control.In a matter of second you can get on a wheel almost 40% of the engine power if the wheel needs it.And still it gets beaten by an lowpowered car.You can't get 1000hp from a civic?LOL... The formula 1 cars in 80's with an engine of 1.3L had 1000hp and more.And the fuel was lousy...in that time... in comparation with these days.And still they use normal fuel..not methanol or something else.
I told you to look on Koenigsegg cc or ccr or ccx.A 4.2L engine if i am not mistaking... and still gets 350kmh and more.It has flaws...like hard gear shifting...but in the corners it's very quick.Put in a car an electro-hydraulic suspension and you will see what happens.To have 6cm from the ground all the time...on each wheel...even when cornering..
Posted by Enz0 | July 6, 2007 9:07 AM
Posted on July 6, 2007 09:07
I know what I want when some asshat is revving at me in the terminating right lane at a stoplight that is going to merge 100 feet after the light... not a car for the 'twisties' thats for sure.
That happens more often than people trying to cut me off making a left turn around a 90 deg corner at 250 mph *rolls eyes*
Posted by Chris | July 6, 2007 10:41 AM
Posted on July 6, 2007 10:41
"I know what I want when some asshat is revving at me in the terminating right lane at a stoplight that is going to merge 100 feet after the light... not a car for the 'twisties' thats for sure."
Well, when both of the clowns in this scenario reach the merge point at the same time, it would sure be handy if ONE of them were driving a car with enough handling prowess to dodge the ensuing wreck.
Posted by kw | July 6, 2007 4:25 PM
Posted on July 6, 2007 16:25
More like the guy in the Mercedes or BMW will be whining about how he could take me if you 'throw some twisties' in there despite being beat by a block.
Just making an example of people that buy 'cars made for the twisties' who then want to race everyone at every light on the straights around town like they have the worlds fastest car, only to whine about twisties after they lose. It's lame.
Posted by Chris | July 6, 2007 6:02 PM
Posted on July 6, 2007 18:02
Awesome! That’s another nice one from Mercedes. Mercedes C63 AMG simply looks elegant and the interior looks comfortable, with tough steering, packed with new parts such as the Rack and Pinion Steering and Mercedes Benz Steering Damper, projecting a great performance. It seems that Mercedes perfectly chosen the parts that would be included and it’s good.
Posted by Jackie | July 7, 2007 1:49 AM
Posted on July 7, 2007 01:49