Can't These American car companies get it!!

They keep coming out with big V8 trucks no one want's
no wonder they are losing 3 Billion dollars a year?

They need to refocus their car line up, & start giving the public wat we want, fuel efficient cars & hybrids like
Toyota!!

Frank T

Can't These American car companies get it!!

They keep coming out with big V8 trucks no one want's
no wonder they are losing 3 Billion dollars a year?

They need to refocus their car line up, & start giving the public what we want, fuel efficient cars & hybrids like
Toyota!!

Frank T

Yeah, but it's an enthusiast car, not for the masses. So who cares if it sips gas. Caddy is not selling a lot of these versus the standard CTS (300hp).
While I agree that the auto industry is and should be greener, calling a Lexus LS600H a "hybrid" is a stretch that borders on bastardizing the concept. So Toyota is milking the idea.
But, until the day comes when everyone has to buy hydrogen fuel sell envirobox's, it's nice to see some fun stuff.

All these big, nasty, powerful V8s have a nifty little cylinder shutoff system that allows them to cruise on 4 cylinders. Modern V8s are actually very efficient and are not the dirty smog pumps that they used to be in the mid 90's and earlier. Better efficiency is actually why they can make so much power now and still be realistic when it comes to fuel economy.

So stop whining you tree huggerz!

If you're worried about the environment then worry about other petrochemical industries (every material we use on a daily basis from chemicals to plastics), devastating fishing practices and treatment of our oceans, and the deforestation of the rain forests (the two mechanisms on our planet that create all the oxygen and regulate weather in the macro way). The auto industry and 600hp V8s should not even be on your radar if you're worried about anything.

Another American "sports" car with too much motor for too little chassis.

I can just hear the boardroom chats...

"The engineers can't build anything that drives worth a damn, or holds together for more than a few years, but keep pumping up those BHP numbers and the junk will sell itself."

GM engineers should go drive a 335i, then an IS350, then a G35, and they'll see what *proper* engineering can do with "only" 300 BHP.

Actually, GM and cadillac profit margins are in the green. They are still making money. And are you aware that this isnt a truck??

The new cadillac grill looks fantastic, I wonder what the grill for this one will look like.... and how much it will cost!

Oof... nevermind, didn't realize that one in the picture was what they're thinking about. I'd rather have the engine with the 300 hp grill.

416Hammy, have you driven a recent model CTS-V? A buddy of mine has an '05 CTS-V with the LS6. It handles pretty well. Maybe not quite as well as some of its competition, but its a lot better car than you think. Further, it is a very fast car, plain and simple. There are some top-notch racing class Cadillacs out there. Maybe some of these German and Japanese engineers should go drive an LS-powered V-series Caddy or a Z06 and see what *proper* engineering can do with a "only" a pushrod V8.

the g35 will have the skyline with 480-530hp, the bmw 3 series is a compact car. the cts is comparable to the 5 series in size. so think 5 series and m5. and whats that M5 have again??? a 5.0l V10 with 500hp. hell even the m3 has 400hp. and the 335i needs twin turbos to get a lousy 300hp. the 08 cts will get 300hp from a 3.6l direct injected motor. oh yeah and lexus will have the wonderful IS-F with a 5.0l V8 making north of 400hp. whats wrong with the ctsv again? those hybrids will end up polluting more with the heavy metals in those batteries than the cts-v's of the world will do with their tailpipes. stick to your pruis' and birkenstocks leave the uber sedans to those of us with motor oil in our veins.

people in japan consider it a great disgrace to own an american car, save for mustangs and corvettes or anything with real soul. they buy japanese vehicles and drive them with great pride. somewhere along the way we were fooled into thinking japanese vehicles were the end all and our companies were garbage. i bought a cobalt and my wife bought a silverado and we will always buy american cars. my money stays here.

Better efficiency is actually why they can make so much power now and still be realistic when it comes to fuel economy.
So stop whining you tree huggerz!

Really?

I thought it was the 1-4 skip shift and the extremely tall gearing in the upper 3 gears on both the AT and MT.

Maybe some of these German and Japanese engineers should go drive an LS-powered V-series Caddy or a Z06 and see what *proper* engineering can do with a "only" a pushrod V8.

Why?

So they can laugh at the fit and finish, interior designs and poor quality of material for a $50k+ car?

Sure, they can go fast in a straight line but they are not great handling cars. Sure, they may post high skidpad and slalom numbers, but that doesn't tell you how the car actually drives. Look at some handling comparisons in some car mags. The Z06 may have a rocket ship under the hood but the overall DYNAMIC handling is NOT on par with the competition.

Wow jason! 335i has a lousy 300hp motor when people have dynoed around 280hp at the wheels. Think about it..

Noya RE: The Z06.

Just stop talking. It's obvious you don't know what you're talking about. The Z06 downright EMBARRASES its competition. You can take your biased magazines complaints about "feel" and "dynamics" and shove them up your ass. Numbers don't lie:

Nurburgring Track Time:
Z06 - 7:42.9

Cost of Car: $75K US

Number of Cars offering similar performance-to-cost ratio: ZERO.

Everything else is subjective to everyone's own biased opinion, mine included. But one thing remains true: Numbers. Don't. Lie.

Complain all you want about the fit & finish of the Corvette & the Z06 Corvette, but for the money you will not find anything on the planet that will perform this well.. From a cost vs. performance aspect the Corvette cannot be beat. All this from a V-8 pushrod engine originally designed in the 50's. BMW, Lexus & Mercedes may be more refined, but you will pay a lot for that refinement, without getting any better or appreciable performance for the money. By the time you find one of these vehicles that can beat the Corvette, it will cost you the price of two Corvettes. The law of diminishing returns. Personally, I would rather have a Z06 and a Convertible Corvette than one BMW that is a just a bit faster. Corvette stands alone in the fun for your money department. Either you are in it for fun, or you are in it for status, I'd rather have fun. Anybody who pays 150K for a new sports car that can’t out perform a Z06, in my opinion, is just wants it as a status symbol.

top gear from the UK took the caddy around there test track 1.33.3
a merc SL55 AMG 1.33.0
Merc slk 350 1.32.9
BMW m3 1.31.8
address http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Laps
top gear commented the car handles well BUT fit and finish was VERY bad
top gear DOESN'T think the Civic type R handles well!!

"i bought a cobalt and my wife bought a silverado and we will always buy american cars. my money stays here."

You mean your money stays in Canada and Mexico. Why don't you try learning something about cars that you can't get from a half-assed reading of the brochures they hand out at car shows and stop being such a racist idiot.

"Anybody who pays 150K for a new sports car that can’t out perform a Z06, in my opinion, is just wants it as a status symbol."

Or they're more concerned with the OVERALL car instead of just 0-60 and skid pad numbers. There are a handful of American cars I would consider buying. A corvette (unless it's from the 50's - 70's) is NOT one of them and it has nothing to do with performance. As the saying goes "the devil is in the details". Unfortunately, that's where a lot of American cars that have good potential fall flat on their face.

600hp, so a 12L engine then?

I kid :D

Seems to me that the destroy America from within crowd is here and trying to reinforce the mind$uck they're sucking up on a daily basis.

Sure, to remain competitive, a part of those domestic cars are built in Mexico or Canada. But what the Anti-American jingoists won't ever admit is that buying domestic cars keeps American R&D alive.

The larger problem with American cars is not their fit and finish (or some other insert-your-esoteric-purisim-here intangible) but shedding the yoke of the Unions and their cradle-to-grave health care and benefits packages.

I have always had less problems with my Dodge and Chevy than I ever had with my Hondas and Toyotas and Nissans.

I hope I can get something moderately sporty soon (if I can clear it by the wife!) and I'm sure going to be shooting for that Corvette.

Best bang for the buck, no doubt, performance, quality and durability.

That new CTS-V is pretty damn sweet! I'm all about more power, and this car along with the new Z07 certainly don't disappoint.
"I thought it was the 1-4 skip shift and the extremely tall gearing in the upper 3 gears on both the AT and MT."
The 1-4 skip shift is an annoyance; hit it every now and then in the GTO, under extremely certain circumstances. They say it's to improve fuel economy, and I understand the concept, but from my experience, it hasn't helped or hurt. As for the upper three gears being extremely tall.... go do some research! Fourth is one-to-one, with fifth and sixth both being overdrive. Now, are they 'extremely tall'? No, but like any 150+mph vehicle, it needs the proper gearing to go that fast.
As for the Mexican and Canadian plants producing American vehicles...where do you think the money goes when the vehicles are eventually purchased? Mexico? No. Canada? No. It goes to the American car companies. When you purchase a foreign vehicle that may have been made in the US, where do you think that money goes? US? No. Back to the foreign automaker's home country.

Hey Frank T,
I own a large truck--a 2005 silverado 4x4 4door. I have it lifted 6 inches with 35inch tires on it. And it still gets 20mpg on the hwy.

All of you "greenies" are so misinformed on these hybrids it makes me wonder...Hybrids actually cost about 2-3 dollars more per mile to operate than a gas powered auto. Plus no one ever says anything how these hybrids will operate in colder climates--less effieciant I would say. Plus the battery life is less than optimal, then what do you do with the batteries? Landfill? People in the USA are so lazy you know they will end up there.

Personally, I don't want a small fuel effieciant car. I want a LARGE fuel effieciant car. One that either runs on hydrogen or a type of fuel cell. Or one that runs on an AIR engine like the one MDI has patented.

I do not and will not conserve gas because what the hell is the difference if it runs out now or 10 years from now? Either way it's gone. It makes no sence and the only reaason there is a conserve gas hype is because the auto comanies are not in the position to make money on hybrids and other types of autos that run on other technology other than fossil fuels. Blame Bush also, he is an oil man after all...

I have an 2006 Impala SS, it has Displacement on Demand and it gets about 20MPG average, around the same as my old Nissan Maxima with the 3.0L engine, Cylinder shut off is great on the highway. City Mileage on the other hand is a mixed bag. Overall my mileage is about 16 city 26 Hwy. Not too bad for a car that has 300+ HP. Heck unless you have a straight up 4 cylinder engine with maybe a supercharger(no turbo charging, that really wastes gas bad) you are not gonna get good gas mileage at that amount of HP. If we didn't have SUV's and went back to wagon's and Minivans we wouldn't have the gas crisis we do now. Even the biggest Station wagons of the 90's got better mileage then just about every truck based SUV.

I have an 2006 Impala SS, it has Displacement on Demand and it gets about 20MPG average, around the same as my old Nissan Maxima with the 3.0L engine, Cylinder shut off is great on the highway. City Mileage on the other hand is a mixed bag. Overall my mileage is about 16 city 26 Hwy. Not too bad for a car that has 300+ HP. Heck unless you have a straight up 4 cylinder engine with maybe a supercharger(no turbo charging, that really wastes gas bad) you are not gonna get good gas mileage at that amount of HP. If we didn't have SUV's and went back to wagon's and Minivans we wouldn't have the gas crisis we do now. Even the biggest Station wagons of the 90's got better mileage then just about every truck based SUV.

Some of the newer Cadillacs are competitive performers. They've done good work on the driving dynamics. I'm not a fan of their current styling, but I give them a nod in the area of performance.

The new Corvette rocks. Bang for buck it blows away its competition. In pure performance it pretty well does so to, regardless of cost. It does suffer in the fit/finish area, but then it cost half of what it's competitors charge. Do you want performance? Or are you willing to pay twice as much for performance AND fit/finish? Your call, and money.

The Mustang is right on target. Good looks, good performance, good price. Well done, Ford.

However, I consider cars like these the exceptions which prove the rule of the current state of the US car manufacturers. They can do better, but they don't in far too many cases.

The reasoning behind a free market is that consumers will buy a product because it is superior. When sales slump, a manufacturer should either improve it's product, or fail.

When we buy substandard products in support of US makers, we are merely alowing them to continue making those substandard products. Why SHOULD they improve when they can still sell crap?

If you want to support US car manufacturers, buy one of their GOOD cars. Do not just 'Buy American.' That doesn't help.

It seems the "American cars are better! waaaahhhh!" crowd is out in force today.

Everytime I see you guys, it becomes *fact* that every car mag is biased, Consumer Reports is a paid ad (which even gave me a chuckle there) and that they buy American to "keep their money here."

To which I say: lol. Everytime. Why?

IS it that every car mag is biased or that you yourself are so brand loyal as to only pick a few good things and run with them?
IS it that Consumer Reports is paid... no, its not. I wont even play that. They buy their cars AT THE DEALERSHIP, not direct from the manufacturer. It could be the case then that they favor foreign brands, but if that were true, it'd be because the foreign brands perform their tests better. And notice: in quality ratings where Toyota was once top, Hyundai (once the maker of americas favorite disposable econo-boxes) is now on top.
-and-
IS it that your money stays here, or that the Silverado is made in Canada, the Monte Carlo and Malibu in Mexico, and Toyota has as many plants here as the American makes? As far as the ownership goes, all big auto makers have large numbers of their shares held by private equity firms, Toyota, Honda, GM and all. Most of those firms are American, or such a random combination of nationality (if a nationality at all) that no one can lay claim to them.

My advice? Find the car that does everything YOU want it to do, dont worry about price or quality to start, and then work on price points and maybe an extended warranty.

It seems the "American cars are better! waaaahhhh!" crowd is out in force today.

Everytime I see you guys, it becomes *fact* that every car mag is biased, Consumer Reports is a paid ad (which even gave me a chuckle there) and that they buy American to "keep their money here."

To which I say: lol. Everytime. Why?

IS it that every car mag is biased or that you yourself are so brand loyal as to only pick a few good things and run with them?
IS it that Consumer Reports is paid... no, its not. I wont even play that. They buy their cars AT THE DEALERSHIP, not direct from the manufacturer. It could be the case then that they favor foreign brands, but if that were true, it'd be because the foreign brands perform their tests better. And notice: in quality ratings where Toyota was once top, Hyundai (once the maker of americas favorite disposable econo-boxes) is now on top.
-and-
IS it that your money stays here, or that the Silverado is made in Canada, the Monte Carlo and Malibu in Mexico, and Toyota has as many plants here as the American makes? As far as the ownership goes, all big auto makers have large numbers of their shares held by private equity firms, Toyota, Honda, GM and all. Most of those firms are American, or such a random combination of nationality (if a nationality at all) that no one can lay claim to them.

And if you knew anything about global capital and costs, you'd know that even with a weaker yen, the high cost of living and over-inflated currency in Japan actually makes it cheaper for many Japanese cars to be made in America now. And BMW, a German automaker, is expanding its Spartansburg plant in Carolina due to the Euro wiping out their profit margins on German made BMWs that are exported to America.

My advice? Find the car that does everything YOU want it to do, dont worry about price or quality to start, and then work on price points and maybe an extended warranty.

"But what the Anti-American jingoists won't ever admit is that buying domestic cars keeps American R&D alive."

WHAT R&D? The "genius" that says "hey, if we increase displacement using 60+ year old technology we can increase power"? That's the biggest problem with American companies - they DON'T do any groundbreaking development. With few exceptions, the technology in their cars is stuck in the mid 1900's.

"The larger problem with American cars is not their fit and finish (or some other insert-your-esoteric-purisim-here intangible) but shedding the yoke of the Unions and their cradle-to-grave health care and benefits packages."

Yes, without the stupid unions they could price the cars to fit a segment where they belong for the fit and finish (about $5k less than they cost, varies on the model though). It still doesn't change the fact that for the price, they're not up to par with the competition in many areas (trucks excluded) and that's where they have a problem.

"As for the Mexican and Canadian plants producing American vehicles...where do you think the money goes when the vehicles are eventually purchased? Mexico? No. Canada? No. It goes to the American car companies. When you purchase a foreign vehicle that may have been made in the US, where do you think that money goes? US? No. Back to the foreign automaker's home country."

Ok, you seem to have a problem understanding this, so I'll put it in terms a typical American can understand. When Pedro build Chevy, Pedro get paid by Chevy. When Joe build Honda, Joe get paid by Honda. Now that I've put it in basic hick-ish, do you understand why the argument "I'm supporting American workers" doesn't fly? If you want to buy it because you think it's a good car, go for it - just don't try to claim that you're "keeping your money in the US".

I have no trust that a 600 BHP stock American car will hold together for more then a year. I have a late model Ford and a Cayenne turbo. The Ford gets babied and towed in for major repairs once a year like clock work. Porsche gets driven VERY, VERY hard and has only needed tires and oil changes.

As for the Cadillac. I had the pleasure of having the transmission break and lock up while driving the car. lucky no one was hurt, But then I was only doing 15 MPH...

I was a big American car fan, until I experienced what true car workmanship really is.

I have a hard time believing that American domestic manufacturers are "stuck in the 1900's" You are referring to, and only to, pushrod tech. If it's so damn bad, then why does the same car that can't be touched in terms of price:performance also get the best gas mileage out of ANY super car?

You can keep your super-electronic-swishing-seven OHC-dual-extreme-magnet-pumping ego boosting technology, but all you have to do is look at the NUMBERS to see the truth.

You can't beat Corvette in terms of cost.
You can't beat GM V8's in terms of fuel effeciency. (Who cares if it has 400L, if it still gets better gas mileage than your 5L, then really, who is the bigger asshole?)
And you can't beat Corvette in terms of Performance relative to cost.

Stop. Trying. You won't win this arguement, ever.

There are other things besides pushrods that they still use from the olden days. Also, more power doesn't necessarily mean faster. Take the RS4 and the M3 (not the new M3). 420 hp for the Audi plus more torque (I forget how much more) vs 333 hp for the BMW. Guess which one is faster. That's right. The BMW. Work smarter my friend, not harder.

As for cost? Yea, take Ferrari, ditch the amazing design work and the orgasm inducing interior (and the demand would drop as a result further reducing price) and you could easily sell it for the same price as a Corvette.

For fuel efficiency - who in the foreign companies uses mutli-dislacement engines? None. They don't need to (though I'd like it if they did) because they aren't struggling constantly to keep from getting raped by CAFE standards.

I know I won't "win" for the same reason hillbillies still hate blacks, but that's ok, because the ones who aren't biased and just things based on their merit instead of the "American good - foreign bad!" mentality.

1900's technology. What does Porsche use, Air cooled opposed cylinder engines. Let me see, WW2, Germany, aah yes, the Volkswagen Beatle - The Peoples Car used this crazy design. I believe that dates it about 10 years older than the introduction of the Small Block Chevy. Stop spouting about old technology. The Porsche is just updated 1940's technology. As far as I am concerned, anything that still uses pistons is 1900's technology. So What. Just because it's newer technology does not equate to better. Ford ditched all its pushrod designs in favor of over head cam designs. Thier vehicles still get about the same fuel economy and have similar performance. GM stuck with Pushrods in the Small Block Chevys and with some V-6's 3.8 ect.. and these cast iron dinosaurs still do just as well as Fords so called modern efficient engines. The 3.8L V6 that was used in the Impala is a good example from GM. It will get 30mpg on long freeway drives and about 24 in the city. I owned a Ford Taurus with a Duratec V6 that was lucky to get 24 if ever, under any circumstances. New technology does not equate to better.

Show me a car that gets 20-22 mpg and hit 60 in less than 4 seconds that doesn't use a multi-displacement engine (which they actually invented in the 30's-40's but didn't have the technology for it to really work) and is built by a US company. Or, to make it easier, a car from a US company that can realistically get around 40 (or more) mpg that isn't a hybrid.

It's in the details as I said before. Work smarter, not harder. Use new materials to cut weight, use new variable geometry turbos to get more power and eliminate turbo lag, use ECU's that can be reprogrammed at the push of a button to alter the amount of power and the mpg delivered.

As for "The 3.8L V6 that was used in the Impala is a good example from GM. It will get 30mpg on long freeway drives and about 24 in the city." - Bullshit. I can call you on it. Why? The Grand Prix and the Impala are the same car (yea, that great R&D from GM really paying off - switch body panels and the moronic masses will think it's a different car...they only waste millions a year to think up that one). I've got one sitting in the driveway right now with the 3.8 V-6. On a good day you might get 25 mpg out of it. That's if the stars are aligned just right.

I don't believe Porsche uses air cooled engines (having a hard time verifying it one way or another) - but if they do, that's actually a sign that they have damn good engineering in their cars for a 3.6 liter twin turbo 480hp car to be air cooled and not die after a very short period.

Ford has actually shown that they are capable of building a decent car - they just refuse to sell them in the US (why spend more money to make more good cars when the morons are willing to pay the same amount for a crappier version?) and if they ever do sell them here I could see them actually becoming the number 1 seller in the US.

I own a 2002 BMW 530i,

when i was testdriving cars, in order to buy something i looked at the following:

BMW 2002 M3
BMW M5
BMW 530i
BMW 328
BMW 325
Porshe 911 Turbo with 850HP at the wheel
Dodge SRT4
Cousin's SRT4 with 300+ HP at the wheel , now it has 420+
Honda Civic
Nisan 300z
Infinity G35
Nisan Altima
Nisan Maxima ---i didn't testdrive
Subaru STI
Cadilac CTS
Acura RSX
Mazda 3
Honda Accord 2006
Audi TT 225
Chevy Cobalt SS supercharged
--------------------

Each car offers different things. Out of all of the cars i Drove, My 2002 530i Manual gave me the best of all worlds.
---Decent Acceleration 0-60 in 6.5 sec if you know how to drive stick
---Heated Seats, stearing wheel, sunroof, Looks good, nice rims, 4 doors, roomy
--- with high performance tires, i can take corners as well as a 3 series, and Better than mannnnyyy other smaller cars. (ie the 530 has a aluminum block engine which reduces weight it weigs 3400lb while the M5 weigs close to 4000) Cars like SRT, STI, EVO weigh around 3000lb

I found it used at low milage of 69K for $16000. Engine is bulletproof, i redline it everyday for the past year and it doesn't even hickup. I even had water in the intake (flood) which made my engine stall, but had the water romoved by taking out the sparkplugs and turning the key, It didn't effect the engine one bit.
--------------------------------

Now out of all the cars that i testdrove, exluding the Porshe which was highly modified plus its a Porshe.

Subaru STI was BEST in --> Handeling

M5, i took it to 150mph and was afraid to push it more, trafic was approaching very very very fast. Plus the limitter is at 155 i think. So the M5 is fastest.

M3 Is fast but after 100mph it runs out of gas compared with an M5

The SRT 1/4 mile in 12 seconds flat, scared the shit out of me, and can outhandle any M3 even modified ones,
-----------------------------------

All in all Americans Cars are good, in terms of driving, and many of them outhandle much more expensive German Automobiles, and are faster then them, with little/cheap mods.

What I noticed out of all the cars that I drove is that German Luxury Automobiles have marginaly better quality then American Luxury Automobiiles.

They also have better looks, in my oppinion.

To people with money , its worth it? Yes it is. That's why they buy them.

People that don't have 100K in the bank, settle for american cars or do what i did

and got a used German car, 530i for $16K which is worlds away from any $16K brand new Civic, Dodge, Ford or whatever 16K can buy you.

sorry for any spelling errors.

2009 Cadillac CTS-v will mostl likely beat the competition in terms of driving, even handeling, because more HP also helps getting out of corners and such.. and 100HP extra is substantial

However compared to its direct competition which is
BMW 2009 M5-- around 500hp
Mercedes E55 AMG--around 500hp
However it will be marinally inferior, in terms of quality/luxury/options

Also Reliability, if i drive the M5 hard, (redline it ) for a year
and I do the same with the E55 and the CTS-V

Which one will break first??

I think the Cadilac will break first followed by the Mercedes then the M5

Even so, The M5 its like 90K and the E55 is the same price
while the CTS-V will probably be in the 50K range

So i had had 100K to spare, I would probably get the CTS-V and save myself 1/2 my money for gas/fixing the car when it does break, it stil won't cost me 40K to fix.

Yet I won't feel the small diference in luxury between the three.

However if i had about 500K in the bank to spare, then i would go with the M5 or E55.

"2009 Cadillac CTS-v will mostl likely beat the competition in terms of driving, even handeling, because more HP also helps getting out of corners and such.. and 100HP extra is substantial"

Did you not see the example I posted above? I'll say it again. More power doesn't necessarily mean faster. Take the RS4 and the M3 (not the new M3). 420 hp for the Audi plus more torque (I forget how much more) vs 333 hp for the BMW. Guess which one is faster. That's right. The BMW. If the CTS-v weighs too much more and doesn't have the proper gearing (or just doesn't get enough power to the wheels), it won't be faster even if it does have 600 hp.

Remy LeBeau,

You are a true idiot. If you did not know that a Porsche uses air cooled opposed cylinder engines, then you have just shown me that you are totally uneducated in the world or automobiles and are not a true enthusiast. you are just spouting crap out of your ass. As for your Pontiac Grand Prix not getting the same fuel economy as my Impala, it is because the Pontiac uses a different final drive ratio for more performance. Remember, Pontiac is Driving Excitement. Why don't you look up the specifications for any thing you spew about. There is a saying, 'It is better to shut up and be thought of as stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

Remy LeBeau,

You are a true idiot. If you did not know that a Porsche uses air cooled opposed cylinder engines, then you have just shown me that you are totally uneducated in the world of automobiles and are not a true enthusiast. You are just spouting crap out of your mouth. As for your Pontiac Grand Prix not getting the same fuel economy as my Impala, it is because the Pontiac uses a different final drive ratio for more performance. Remember, Pontiac is Driving Excitement. Why don't you look up the specifications for any thing you spew about. There is a saying, 'It is better to shut up and be thought of as stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt".

I couldn't stomach reading all this crap so I will summarize, then initiate some REAL conversation.
I own a CTS-V and heres how it breaks down:
Interior is OK. Center stack is way lame. Leather and guages are nice.
Performance: Kicks ass. Staight line performance is Good but should be better. Handling is balanced and predictable. Ride is good for the performance. Steering is good. (notice I gave it no Excellents)
Bottom line: Despite not being the greatest at any one thing, nothing in its price classs (sedan) bests it, all factors considered. PERIOD. If something did I'd own it.

Heres the real questions for the autogeeks out there:
1) I think they have to keep the price less than 60K to be a winner. Comments?
2) Will Cadillac improve the wheel hop of the current model?
3) I personally believe supercharging is a mistake. I owned a 2003 Cobra and the supercharged engines drivability was lame. I think positive displacement superchargers work well on automatics but I'm not sure on manuals. Comments? Give me the LS7 and work on getting the weight down a few hundred pounds and it will absolutely ROCK.

"If you did not know that a Porsche uses air cooled opposed cylinder engines, then you have just shown me that you are totally uneducated in the world or automobiles and are not a true enthusiast."

I know that they did, but seeing as the EU (and just to make sure you're aware, Porsche falls under their jurisdiction) outlawed air cooled engines due to higher pollution, I tried looking to see if they still use air cooled engines and couldn't find anything one way or another. As for the final drive ratio claim, sure, they're different, but I've looked around message boards and owners of both Grand Prix's and Impalas mention averaging low to mid 20's for mpg.

I love the internet

I also own a CTS-V.
I agree with much of what I've just read, so I'll just add a few experiences of my own.

I REALLY like this car, it fits just about everything I was looking for in a car. I don't baby any car I drive and this one has held up the best.
I've owned a 2000 Accord V6 and an '02 Acura CL-S(after the Honda blew up).
I traded in the Acura when I got the V as the Acura was on its last leg(3d tranny and counting).
" More power doesn't necessarily mean faster " How true this is...But let's use a different set of cars...how about an '04 BMW M5 and my '04 CTS-V? Both advertise 400 HP...yet I've embarrassed two M5s from a stand still and on the highway.

I would like more power out of my car and was thinking of adding a centrifugal supercharger(procharger) but have found out about GMs penny pinching bastards left a GROSSLY underrated rear-end in my car. Granted, it has not broken...but has left me "suffering" with the stock LS6. I will look forward to the '09Vs...Hopefully they look better in person then the picture above suggests. They will add ~14k to the current V's pricetag...I may have to wait for a nice used one to pop up on the lot.

Anyway, everyone who bashes a car maker for whatever reason..I hope you realize that EVERY car maker has their problems and EVERY car maker is out to MAKE MONEY.

@Gordon:
Maybe do some research into topics before placing smartass comments ;)

Does Porsche still use air-cooled engines? The answer is most definately not. The last Porsche to use these was the Porsche 993, which is the 911 built between 1993 and 1998. It also was the first 911 with a 6-gear manual transmission to be able to handle the top speeds of over 270km/h :)

The successor (the 996) did have to use liquid cooled eniges though because of noise regulations (not air polution) and customers wishes concerning comfort and performance.

So there ya have it, a little bit of European sportscar history ;)

"Remy LeBeau:

Show me a car that gets 20-22 mpg and hit 60 in less than 4 seconds that doesn't use a multi-displacement engine (which they actually invented in the 30's-40's but didn't have the technology for it to really work) and is built by a US company."

Do a Google search for Chevrolet C6 Z06. 505HP. 26MPG. Now that we got that out of the way, you can continue with your regularly scheduled idiocy.

On a side note, has anyone ever met a Euro-snob or American idiot who trumpets the superiority of Japanese autos that actually knows what they're talking about? I haven't.

Blame Bush Sagan? You can't blame one person for any oil "cirsis" we may have. Heck Ted Kenndy and Al "I invented global warming" Gore have huge amounts of stock in oil and gas. Does Shell and Oxidential ring a bell? Infact Al Gore is a huge user of natural resourses, just look at his house and the electric bill, where GB's house is very green. The wacko enviro crowd is as much to balme as anybody. If they would get off their "better than you' attitude they have and "let" us drill for oil in the US and the coast and build refineries gas would go down. As well as build Nuke plants like the frenchy French people are doing things would be better.

Got torque steer?

As usual the first post after an article about an american car is from an idiot. Just for the record: The best selling VEHICLE in the United States is one of those "Big V8 Trucks that nobody wants"....the Ford F series. #2 on that List is Chevy's big V8 trucks, and then comes your precious Toyota Camry. Oh, and #4 is Dodge's big V8 trucks.

Go hug a tree and get off the automotive forums. If you care so much about gas mileage you'd own a motorcycle or, god forbid, a bicycle to get to and from work.

Seriously guys, half of you need to go and troll the greanpeace forums and get out of here. This site is for automotive enthusiasts, definately not you.

STFU ABOUT HANDLING!

Top Gear tested the OLD CTS-V against the QUATTRO AUDI S4, the CTS-V won.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhQb2wJVPTg
see for yourself jackasses.

Go look at the new BMW 3-series interior and the interior of the new CTS, difference is as big as heaven and earth, the CTS is far more technologically advanced and is beautiful, I've been in both, you haven't then don't open your fucking mouth. And don't get me started on fucking iDrive, I sold Audis for a year, most unreliable peices of crap ever, I've had so many new ones break down on me during a test drive its not even funny. Face it, the Germans HAD better cars than Americans only a few years ago, but now GM is leaving everyone in its dust.