Well, that's it. Time to pack up, Saturn, say goodbye to your profits.

The interior of the Aura is nicer than I would have ever expected. Go see one for yourself and your opinion may change about its build quality. As far as actual PERFORMACE, I dunno...hopefully GM put a little muscle under the hood of that eco friendly saturn.

Honestly anything with less than 250hp isn't a car to me anymore LOL.

The Aura XR comes with 252hp.

If you really need 250+hp, you need some help. I have a 94 saturn with its 124bhp and its been one of the most faithful cars I've ever had. Its got nearly 200k on it and still runs as good as the day it was bought. If you think saturn isn't very good, think again. GM was the number one car company till just this past year when toyota barely slipped by em. I'll keep buyin good cars if they keep making em.

number one as in volume doesn't correlates into quality.

@sam

American quality is at the same level of jap companies AND is on the way up.

The best built American cars are no longer... Olds was the best, hands down. Then they killed the line... just like they did Cappy :(

First, the aura exterior looks better than the Camry and Accord, hands down. This isn't even a comparison. Interior.. I'm not sure, I haven't looked at it yet.

Performanace... 160 hp seems really low for a car in this segment, which both the 4cyl camry and accord have. I'm just going to throw those two versions out the window. Way too underpowered.

The Aura starts at 220 hp.. albeit it is more expensive than the 4cyl camry / accord, but can you really buy a car in this segment with such a weak engine? My cheap coupe has nearly 160 hp.

The Aura XR costs $1500 more than the camry 6cyl, and the camry 6cyl has 268 hp at the high end compared to the XR's 252 hp. However, who cares about the high end. The XR can hit 0-60 in just over 6 secs, whereas the camry is 7 seconds. That's what the extra $1500 is for, and a second faster to 60 is definitely worth the money... especially in America where you can only drive 70mph on the freeway legally.

And... the best part for Americans who have family working for GM... Discount plans! Can't say that about the Japanese car companies.

So in conclusion.. the exterior looks better and while a bit more expensive, the low end Aura beats the performance of the low end camry/accord. Again, while a bit more expensive, the high end Aura is quicker than the high end camry 0-60, but has less hp at the high end .

upi8n8,

you're on crack, the camry V6 hit's 60mph in 6.1 seconds.
http://www.v6performance.net/forums/showthread.php?t=71556
according to Road&Track

"That's what the extra $1500 is for"

No, that extra $1,500 (that will be rebated soon) is for your lazy Union membered relatives demanding $25/hr and full benefits for a job an 18 year old immigrant could do better for $10/hr.

First, the aura exterior looks better than the Camry and Accord, hands down. This isn't even a comparison. Interior.. I'm not sure, I haven't looked at it yet.

Looks are all personal opinion.
IMO the front end of the Aura looks to generic and friendly. It has no agression what so ever. Almost like the smiling Malibu of a few years ago.
The rear end of the Camry is an a s s I'd like to tag, beautiful.
Interior, the Aura looks alright but you know it has the GM trademark "cheap" feel. And the shift knob isn't even gated? What is this, 1998?

I've read reviews of the 3.6L "high-feature" V6 from the Caddy it's in and they're not that great. I think "thrashiness" and "not as smooth as competitors" were some of the comments.

I love that, finally (years late as usual) a DOHC V6 that is competitive power wise with the competition isn't just a V6 for GM. It has to be called "high feature"....like it's something special.

But hey, if five years from now the 2007 Aura's have the resale and quality feel of Accords and Camrys, I'd be happy. That would just make Honda and Toyota build a better product in the future.

Hmmm...I smell a familiar Import snob again (Noya). Keep up the shill for Toyota--I'm sure your check's in the mail.

In my opinion, Camrys are getting progressively uglier with each passing generation. They've shed the angular look of three generations ago for soft bulges. This is in contrast to the crisp lines of the Aura. Noya and every other person on his block can keep their Camrys. I'd rather drive something that looks better, performs at least as well, is reliable and made by an American company.

With as long as I keep my cars, resale value is irrelevant. I buy cars for fun, affordable transportation, not as investments.

Here we go again with the same tired arguments. It always comes back to someone talking about quality. I have to agree that it was true in the 80's and 90's, that time is over. American cars have good quality now. If you don't like them that's fine. I don't particularly like the Saturn Aura either, but it's not because of quality.

Here's the link again if you missed it last time...
http://www.leftlanenews.com/lexus-detroit-automakers-top-dependability-survey.html

I don't see how someone can say the Aura looks better than the current Camry but hey that is why opinions are opinions. I could understand an argument for the Accord though. But Hond is in a need for a redesign and we see that the 2008 Honda's (or was it 2009) are in line for a redesign. They are getting a larger open grill instead of that pint size angular grill they've had for ages. Other than that, the Accord is fine.

I highly doubt, the interior of the Aura is better than the other two in build quality, and feel. For example, the current Avalon, and now the 2007 Camry improved their overall features so much that they are encroaching on Lexus and luxury car territory, especially for the Avalon. But again, that is an opinion.

The Top Camry is more powerful than the top Aura if someone cares for stuff like that.

The Accord has the best current overall build quality and quite frankly, no 1 year study can give you an accurate guage of that. The only way to measure that is look at the resale value 5, 10 years down the line and I could Guarantee you that the Accord and Camry will be ahead. I could almost guarantee you also that you will find more accords and Camry's going past the 100, 150, and 200 thousand miles marks than the saturn. With Accord being first, Camry second, Aura third. So while some people might not care about their resale value because they keep the cars forever, MOST people do. All you have to do is ask or search for cars that are 10-15 years old. Basically, yound students, or households with less available money, or immigrant households and check which cars they buy and you'll find you answer.

With all that said, The current Toyota isn't the Toyota of the 80s and 90s. The build quality is declining. The 80s were like Rock, 90s were declining but at a slower rate, now, it isn't the same. But chalk that up to the massive growth.

Same general thing can be said of the accords, but with a much less steep decline.

Saturns, well, it's a Saturn, i actually don't have that much experience with that. But cars are also a status symbol, and Saturn isn't exactly helping you out there. Cadillac yeah, mustangs, sure for that young aggressive type, Saturn??????

Finally, if you care about "green", fuel economy, available hybrids, and so on, your simply not gonna beat the two Japanese companies. GM losing billions, Ford Stuggling, Chrysler division bought by a firm. There comes a point where something has to change in Detroit. The big SUV boom while not Dead is over as a cash cow. They days of teen and early 20s fuel ecomomy is Over. In life and in Business, you have to adjust and evolve or left behind to die. (Wasn't it Ford the chairman of Ford Motors that bashed the company for producing bland cars that could pass for an 80s car.) Come on Ford, who in their right mind would buy the OLD Taurus, and as for the 500/new Taurus, well, it's ok, but that's it, it's just ok.

P.S. Cadillac, and Chrysler have done Wonders to change and refresh their image. Once the business side of things get corrected, they have a very bright future.

Canadian in an American Forum:

I hate to break it to you bud, but US car quality is far from equal right now, albeit it is on the way up. I also think that you're thinking of initial quality. Off the showroom floor, US models are starting to catch up. But as far as long-term reliability goes, the 3 american brands are still nowhere close to the japanese brands. If you have proof of this somehow amazing fact, please provide links to credible documents.

And despite the fact they're catching up, they're still hemmoraging money like there's no tomorrow.

IMHO this is still ugly like pretty much everything GM makes(cobalt, Ion, Malibu, Impala - puke... The Pontiacs and Caddys are tolerable) with the possible exception of their trucks and the vette.... and also (again in my opinion) Saturn doesnt really have much to worry about putting Accords and Camrys on the lot, not that Accords and Camrys arent excellent cars its just that generally the people that walk into a Saturn dealership arent really in the market for those cars. Saturn has a TON of customer loyalty, and a good percentage of their sales are to people that already own or have owned Saturns. Honestly though, you have top be kidding me about the build quality and reliabilitly of American cars getting better... they are just as bad, if not worse than they were in the 80s when compared to japanese (what I'm getting at here is that IMO American cars have gotten better, but so have the Japs cars) cars as much as it pains me to say it. I;d much rather purchase an American car its just they dont make anything thats well rounded enough (good looking, fun, reliable, well priced, and economical) And they are boring. The new camry in my opnion is the best looking one since the 90s by a long shot. I don't think the quality has declined either, I have to disagree with that. One of my vehicles is a turbocharged Scion tC that is running 8-9 psi of boost and has been for well over 30k and its STILL rock sold. Compare that to my friends FACTORY Stage 2 supercharged Cobalt SS which has been in and out of the shop since he got it and i think you will see where I'm going on the reliability thing(and i beat the tC like it owes me money). And the tC is loads better looking, doesn't have the HORRENDOUSLY LOUD supercharger whine, and far, far, far quicker. I believe the Cobalt does (ironically) get somewhat better gas mileage though. I hate the state the American car manufacturers are in and WILL ABSOLUTELY by one as soon as they finally get their act back together, but that may not happen until the Union situation is controlled. Paying a guy $25 an hour to sweep the floors is an insult educated to individuals with far more difficult jobs (for examples IT wrench turners, and certified mechanics) barely make 15-20 an hour. Not to mention not being able to fire someone for incompetence......

My fear:
People will like the Imports better. Forget that here on these forums we debate the quality or the performance: if GM lets people test drive those cars, and people pull up the memories of better quality imports, then the Aura will be left on the lot.

For you American-brand-pushers: remember, the complaints about American cars here also extend to a large portion of the populace in the market for a car (the stereotypes and beliefs, that is), and with so many people having good experiences with 80s and 90s Camry's and Accords, whats the chance they wont be to happy to turn over to Saturn immediately? Probably, they will scorn the Saturn for a generation (of the car) or so.

ITs going to be either a nail-in-the-coffin, or a total rebound. I have no clue which.

On a side note, I am purchasing a 99' Avalon tommorow. The UAW workers at the Ford and GM plants here in Kansas City are absolute assholes, I have no problem with Unions really, only people who act like total assholes to everyone around them who is not Union. Especially when they walk into my workplace (BestBuy) and treat every employee like dirt.

Sure GM and Ford can make some decent quality cars now, but that's not how you win back customers. You win them back by being better not just "me too". That's how the Japanese got ahead to begin with. Detroit let the Japanese get ahead by building unreliable cars so the Japanese became cheaper and more reliable. Now GM and Ford finally catch up on quality but let them continue to get ahead by not innovating enough (ex. hybrids) and obsessing about the bigger cars. While there are plenty of people that like big cars or cars with lot's of horsepower, I also feel like Detroit just ignores the realities of the smaller to mid-size car market. The cars that they push in that market are never the lowest in fuel consumption or cheapest. Instead, they typically have more horsepower. But if I'm buying in the lower end of the market anyways, do I really want more a slightly more expensive car with more horsepower? Or do I want a cheaper car, equally reliable, with higher potential resale and lower fuel consumption?

Does seem to be more of the same old argument...

Having owned two Saturns, I have to say that I am surprised by all the hipe that the Aura is getting. Not that its not a nice car, I guess it is, but it is certainly not a traditional Saturn and it doesn't differ much from what GM is already producing across their other brands.

I have always liked the Saturn concept; different cars for different people. I believe too that when they started in Spring Hill, TN, they were a non-union plant? Maybe someone knows this for sure? I loved the composite body cladding on their vehicles. No door dings is a great thing. Reasonable prices (were) a great thing. The non-commissioned sales people and excellent service departments were a great feature also.

With the new cars they are offering, they are nothing more than the "new" Oldsmobile. They are the same cars that you can buy from any of the other GM brands out there. I actually had one of the Saturn salesmen tell me that one of the reasons GM went away from the composite body panels was that they kept the cars looking too new for too long. In other words, owner's five year old cars with no door dings, no dents and good paint gave them little reason to go buy a "bright, shiny, new car." They still had one.

I miss the old Saturn, quirky, but different.

Make no mistake, they were inferior in build quality, if you translate build quality into tight, rattle free, cars/SUVs. They were however, excellent in the engine and transmission department and would go 200k with no more reliability issues than the imports. The current VUE is especially a good vehicle now. It has a Honda running gear with the composite body and Saturn price (and rebates).

Speaking of imports... I have and do currently own a Honda and I have had 10 + Toyota cars and trucks. They are not the same cars as they were in the 80's, relative to the quality of American cars today. I don't think the American cars have closed the gap by themselves; the imports have implemented cost reducing measures too, which helped the Americans close the gap. American cars are better, imports are worse (than they once were).

As for 5 years down the road... All of the cars out there are over priced and horrible when it comes to 5 year valuations. The imports will be worth more at 5 years across the board (specialty cars excluded), but that can also be seen as the American cars being a better used car value.

In the end, someone else here said it best:
Saturn does not have much to worry about right now by putting Hondas and Toyotas on their lot for comparrison. MOST people driving onto a Saturn lot are not in the market for a Honda or Toyota anyway...

GM has never had a problem making a car that can go fast in a straight line..
So to be honest..who cares about the horsepower when the first time you drive around a bend you fly off the road? American cars in general are orders of magnitude worse then Japanese and European cars at handling.
I do own an American car myself (Wrangler) and I love it, but I would never call it a good car. Then drive-train is rather reliable, but the fit and finish is so bad.
Take a look at almost any American car, the gaps between all the interior pieces are HUGE..nothing fits. Now look at a Honda or hell, even a Skoda (low budget VW) and everything is tight..the pieces look like that were built for that car.
They need to start with putting the thing together right and not using cheap plastics and every cost saving idea they come up with to increase profits. Then they need to make the thing go around the bends without crashing.
Until then...the next car I buy will be a good old made in America....Honda (unlike GM which is not made here)

While I don't know if it'll be an Aura, I see myself potentially buying a Saturn in the future. I honestly wish I'd gotten an Ion Redline instead of my Cobalt SS. Partly because it has the supercharger whereas my Cobalt doesn't (the SS Supercharged has the supercharger, not the SS). But also because of its looks which are a little sportier.

As far as quality, my Cobalt has right below 36,000 miles on it after a year and a half. I've taken it to the dealership three times. Once for routine maintenance (30,000 mile service). Once because I changed my air filter to a K&N at 20,000 miles and the computer was still adjusting so a lean condition happened and it triggered the check engine light (they flushed the code and it was fine). And once because the Chevy emblem cap over on one of my wheels came off and they replaced it for me.

The fit and finish of the car is also excellent. No gaps in the dash or anything. Seats are good. Good gas mileage. Low road noise unless the road sucks. Still original tires as well with plenty of tread left. Same with the brakes.

I have never and will never own anything but GM vehicles. They make the best cars in the world and will continue to have my business. The farthest I'll ever stray is possibly to a Subaru but GM owns a good chunk of them so I count it. But I'm thinking my car after I get married and have a kid will be a Saturn Vue since they look awesome, get good mileage, and are very inexpensive. The weekend toy will be a 67-69 Camaro. Still debating on drivetrain. Might try a turbo diesel if its feasible. Definitely a 6-speed gearbox and 12 bolt rear with 3.42s though.

To pablo_max:

The Wrangler isn't build to handle. It's an vehicle built to go offroading. People who buy them don't buy them for the fit and finish to be perfect. They buy them for getting them dirty and going down dirt trails.

If you wanted a better car, you should've bought a Grand Cherokee.

Just say no to the diesel camaro. The diesel BMW engine was a bad idea too. Get that LS2 and a second car.

I am not buying a GM product. They have just lost me as a customer because of turning out year after year of low-quality, unremarkable cars. I don't think that GM is a good or well-managed company either.

I am a Toyota fan. I wasn't at first, but they make good cars and I have had good experience with them so they won me over and I own a solid Toyota today.

I also have an old F150 that has been a great vehicle.

This is a bold move by Saturn, but sometimes it takes a bold, risky move to achieve radical success. It will be interesting to see if they pull it off.

Someone on here said that cars are a status symbol. That made me laugh. They must have drank the kool-aide from the automotive marketing people. Cars are necessary for transportation, but are a terrible investment and a drain on your income/wealth. I can't believe people take out these 7 year car loans for these things. They lose a huge chunk of their value the first day you own them. People make themselves poor with car debt to impress people that they don't know. Why? Do you really want friends who like you because you drive an expensive car? I'd rather pay cash for a lower cost reliable used car and I really don't care what anyone else thinks about it.

to jake:

"...I can't believe people take out these 7 year car loans for these things. They lose a huge chunk of their value the first day you own them. People make themselves poor with car debt to impress people that they don't know. Why? Do you really want friends who like you because you drive an expensive car? ..."

eh... you believe it or not, people do it a lot. not to mention they love to be the center of attention when they slow-drive downtown street. a terrible investment? some people just don't care because they can, same reason for a shirt from Gap and from Hugo Boss, they all just for covering our bodies, then what's the difference?

it may seem stuplid to you, but it's a style that people chose to live, and it's nothing wrong as long as they take responsibility to afford it.

next time a shiny 100k+ convertible appears in your view while crossing a street, don't look at it. because... you don't need it, right?

Wow, let me clarify. I read other's post and maybe i should put quotes in to my response. So here goes..

"GM was the number one car company till just this past year when toyota barely slipped by em."

That's in volume in my friend. Number 1 in volume does not necessary correlates in quality. Let's keep to comparo an orange-to-orange. In other words.. being number 1 in volume means jack. If you can deliver the goods, then you earn my business.

Another swing and a miss from Saturn, the division that cost GM $6 billion to develop and HAS NEVER TURNED A PROFIT. Few realize that the Aura is just a re-done Opel Vectra, with plastic panels in place of regular sheet metal. Opel's quality is questionable at best. Does anyone remember the Cadillac Catera? That was another re-badged Opel, and in the repair business, I've seen dozens of low-mileage Cateras, only four or five years old, filled with broken trim pieces, inoperative power options and sagging headliners. Such history does not bode well for Saturn. As for the interior (and yes, I've driven one), it is attractive and well designed. It's too bad it's so badly put together. Everywhere you look, uneven gaps between panels. The interior fit and finish is nowhere near Honda or Toyota. Yes, Saturn is improving. But so are their competitors. Toyota is hardly sitting around, waiting for Saturn to catch up. Their quality continues to improve as well, and they're still ahead of GM. Want proof? Go to a Honda or Toyota dealer. See any "factory rebates"? No, they're all going for sticker. Go to Saturn (or any other American dealer for that matter), and you'll see slashed prices, factory incentives and free AC or free automatic transmission. Saturn has never turned a profit, and at this rate, never will. Sorry.

To Noya:

Hrm, oddly I read that it was Toyota that reported the 0-60 at 7.1 seconds. Yet now I've read that reviewers were able to get 6.5 seconds on edmunds and 5.8 seconds on car and driver. That's a heck of a jump...Car and track gave the aura 5.9 seconds... who knows if that's correct either.

Part of the reason for an American auto industry is to employ Americans. Although, that didn't stop Ford from going to Mexico to build the Fusion.

I wouldn't blame the union workers... I'd blame the automotive management. Where many workers have been with the same company for 20+ years, I would think they deserve more than $10 per hour. $25/hr isn't very bad. It gets bad when you realize that workers work overtime and get time and a half. Or they'll work overtime on a holiday for triple time. That would be management's fault.

For quite awhile now, you've been witnessing what happens when a company starts off huge and then part of the market goes elsewhere. Whereas for the Japanese companies, the market started small.. and has been ever increasing. It's the difference between starting off efficiently and learning from another's mistakes, and starting off inefficiently and actually making the mistakes. Hopefully with the downsizing, the american auto industry can get itself organized and put itself in the position of the Japanese auto makers as efficient / growing companies, instead of shrinking companies that leads to inefficiency.

But back on point... if anything the Aura is extremely competitive. The XE settles itself directly between the 4cyl and 6cyl imports, powerwise and pricewise. The fuel efficiency could always be better, but with Americans hoping they can finally buy American again since something comparable is out there, this is definitely a step in the right direction.

Just look at the sales numbers for Saturn in the month of May, up 68% from last year. http://www.autoblog.com/2007/06/01/by-the-numbers-may-2007/

So let me get this straight.... Saturn is going to buy a bunch of 07 Accords to display against their Aura's right before the 08 Accords come out? IF this is the case I think the plan will backfire for them as everyone will be wondering why they have the old Accords and not the new better looking, more powerful, all around better 08 Accords.

The Aura is a huge step up for Saturn however it's simply a G6 look a like with a dash that will be cracked in 4 years.

I know that this is an old subject, but I would like to bring my points up.

I, personally, do not care for the Saturn Aura. It may be a good driving car, but it bothers me at how derivative its look is. I mean, LOOK AT IT. There are numerous design cues, inside and out, and tell me that Saturn was INSPIRED by the Honda Accord. Compare the front grill and its details, such as the headlight lenses. Compare the rear end, including the brake light lenses. Compare the interior, all the way down to the central knob for the radio. RIP OFF!

What in the world happened to GM cars that looked good? WHAT HAPPENED to cars like the previous generation Impala, previous generation Grand Prix, the discontinued Buick Regal? What happened to those cars? THOSE were cars that looked GOOD. What did GM do? They redesigned the successors almost as bad as Ford did with the 1996 Taurus. From a car with great, albeit dated lines, to a car that could really only be appreciated by a marshmallow! GM FAILED to design successor cars that were truly successors, and that's hugely disappointing. But, hey, there are still plenty of used, good condition 2003 Grand Prix GTs that I can get my hands on.

As for the choice in an Aura, Accord, or a Camry. I'd zip right on over to the FORD dealer and buy myself a Fusion. For looks, Ford got it right while GM, Honda, and Toyota got it WRONG for the 2007 model year, and that ought to shut the people who'd read my reply and say "import lover" up quite a bit!

But, I will say this much for Honda. What is GM going to do when the 2008 Accord comes out? They likely won't waste the money in getting 2008 Accords to compare against the Aura nor would they be stupid enough to compare a previous generation model Accord in light of the 2008 model. And, it would be too soon for Saturn to take the Aura back to the drawing board.

And, the Fusion still looks better than the 2008 Accord.

Toyota had more recalls for 2007 than they did actual car sales. And lets talk about cost of ownership. Saturn doesn't have a 30,000 mile check up, in fact the spark plugs and fluids are good for 100,000 miles. Not to mention all the standard features like dual stage front airbags, head and side curtain airbags, Thorax air bags, Onstar* , Stabilitrak, And traction Control. By the way do those Jap cars have Onstar? no i didn't think so. Saturn also has a 300 club. That mean you will see people driving with a plate on the bumper that says either 150k, 200k, or 300k. That means miles on their car...so if you wanna talk about reliability, look no furthur. The customer service at Saturn is great and always 110% from when you walk in the door your first time to when you buy your 10th Saturn. Cant say that about the other guys. Not even GM dealerships, but Saturn is different. IT'S TIME TO RE-THINK. SATURN.