Holy MPG Batman.

How much is this going to cost? If it comes in less than the V6, this could be the car that helps diesels get a foothold in the U.S.

I believe it when I see it. I've seen many new diesel designs on paper claiming many things for past 10 years, but somehow very little of that actually on the road. That 60mpg was probably achieved with manual tranny, on somehow empty road, driving in a high gear at slower speed with little air resistance. Lets put AC on, auto transmission, get it stuck in bumper to bumper traffic and see if it gets 30mpg then. And will this car had pedals to help the engine push it to highway speeds on the short highway entrance ramps? Today's 2.4l gas engines develop around 150-160HP, will this 2.2l diesel develop at least 130 HP and will new cat converter last as long as the engine?

I agree, even the most ardent supporters of American cars still remember the days of the Oldmobile 350 V8 diesel, and ever since diesel cars have been a thing only the Volkswagen affectionatos will drive.

But with Honda, a brand so well known and liked that even the "Buy America" crowd seems to gobble up something in their product like (Motor-bikes and ATVs, anyone?), a diesel car may go mainstream now. If anyone can make that happen, I think its Honda.

When diesel came out years ago it was a bargain and still is although smelly and loud (hopefully they have addressed this). If diesel technology becomes too popular they will just jack up the prices to compensate for demand, then prices of goods will go up because the transportation industry who relies on the cost savings of diesel will take the hit in their pocket. We need a totally new fuel source in the long run.

I have european Civic with this Engine. Its powerfull engine. I get around 55mpg on onboard computer when i set it to miles, or 5.6 liters/100. To work its 20km in total, I drive Autobahn for 9km at some 100-120mph and in city normal limits 35-40mph. I count 8 Traffic Lights. Yes its manual, 98% of cars are manual here. But still its good engine. Yes its going to be the same engine in accord, and it has allready the particel filter for disels engines. Its not that noisy, but tbh I dont like the sound of diesels.

IIRC, Car & Driver did an informal road test of several vehicles, including the Prius and the Jetta TDI, last spring. They did a three hour road trip along the California coast with all the vehicles starting at the same time and being driven in a "normal" fashion, as compared to intentionally pushing the fuel efficiency.

The Jetta turbo diesel won that test, coming in 1-2 mpg better than the Prius. Since diesel is noticeably cheaper than gas (around here diesel is ~2.75 while gas is ~3.10 when I drove to work), it comes it at a significant $/mpg gain. That was with the older engine being sold in the "2006 re-release" jetta. Not sure what the "made for low sulfur gas" TDI will do when it comes out, hopefully next year.

Modern diesels are a far cry from the US diesels of the past. They are much quieter, less smelly and more responsive. They make fine car engines, with gobs of torque, and get better milage than a gasoline engine of similar power.

If all you recall are the embarrasing car diesel engines from the 70's and 80's then you may be surprised at what's coming.

I can't wait for this thing, I am getting moist I swear!!!

BTW, I was standing outside a hotel the other day with a fairly new, giant Ford diesel pickup truck sitting there idling away. I couldn't believe how quiet it was, and how little odor there was.
Clearly diesels have a come a long way since the 80s.

biodiesel for the win, ethanol is not a good option.

Don't worry Peter. This engine will have way more torque than the 2.4L gas engine you mention, so it will accelerate to highway speeds just fine! :)

Cool. I am pleasantly surprised that the Japanese powerhouse HONDA is into diesel now. It makes sense. It is so far behind Toyota in hybrid that it mind as well focus on diesel. As due to the popularity of the low sulfur diesel fuels, the market will steadly grow for sure.

I hope to see more diesel entries into the US market in the next few years. More competition means better price and quality for us consumers.

Hi Peter,
By your comment, i think i havent been in Europe in the last 4-5 years... Besides the regular models, they have Jaguars and BMW 5 series running (very well) on diesel over there...

And James McP,
The only situation a diesel Jetta gets fewer mpg than a prius is heavy city traffic in speeds that it works only with the eletric engine (while the battery can stand it, after that...), and PLEASE, we are talking about economy, dont forget to mention that a prius costs more than 2 times what a jetta does.

I am a Brit, living in Houston Texas.

It does not surprise to see how little Americans are prepared to admit that they don't know about diesel engined cars.

In Europe Diesel cars have been popular for a very long time. Both Ford and GM have been selling solid, high performance diesel engined cars under their European badge names for at least 10 years and doing very well out of it ! But have been hiding this from their American marketplace.

2.5 litre diesels in Europe by BMW, AUDI with 200 hp engines achieving 40 mpg have been hitting 130 mph for a good 7-8 yrs.

Please be prepared to admit that you guys don't know everything about the automobile marketplace.

Go to some European websites like Yahoo.co.uk and see the blurb for yourselves.

Good luck on the learning curves

Americans are so clueless about Diesel engines. Welcome to the rest of the world!

Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_R10

These engines are getting insane mpg values, I couldn't find references with a quick search, can someone more informed provide a link? I recall Opel winning a major endurance race earlier this year with some stupidly efficient cars with the 100+mpg values out of performance engines.

Check out the torque!

Rafael wrote: "...and PLEASE, we are talking about economy, dont forget to mention that a prius costs more than 2 times what a jetta does..."

Nope, Prius does NOT cost more than 2 times than a Jetta diesel. Here are the Canadian prices for base models:

Prius -- $31,280 CDN, Automatic Transmission

Jetta TDI -- $26,750 CDN, Manual Transmission

Jetta TDI -- $28,150 CDN, Automatic Transmission

I assume all you doubters a) have never owned a modern (or even semi-modern) diesel and b) are from the U.S.
It's about time diesels started getting more attention over there, as they present a more attractive option than gasoline hybrids where fuel economy is concerned.
My 1998 Seat Ibiza (1.9l TDi 110 HP), which I have driven into the ground, still gets slightly better average mileage than my girlfriend's 2005 Prius, even though she is a sensible driver and I average a highway speed (traffic permitting) of 160-180km/h (100-112 mph) and tend to treat the accelerator as an on/off switch. On long trips, the difference is even greater, since hybrids do squat for long hauls. Not to mention the fact that diesels have crazy torque, which translates to far more apparent power than the HP would suggest at low RPMs, where most of us spend most of our time. Did I mention that diesel engines last forever?
Basically, if you took a Prius and replaced the gas/electric powertrain and batteries with my 10 year old 1.9l TDi engine, the result would be faster, lighter, cheaper, more powerful and much more fun to drive. And you wouldn't ever have to worry about replacing the battery. In fact, you could probably substitute an unremarkable gasoline engine and get better results than the hybrid in anything but stop-and-go city driving, since that is really the only strong suit of hybrid technology.
I can only imagine what kind of mileage one would get from a modern turbodiesel hybrid using all the same fuel-saving tricks a Prius uses (regenerative braking, CVT, small wheels, low rolling-resistance tires, lightweight materials, aerodynamic body, purely electric A/C, steering, etc.)
Anyway, my point is that the bad rap diesels seem to have in the U.S. is based on faulty or outdated assumptions and is completely undeserved.

Oops. Sorry about that. Don't know if I can delete them...

Alex Greene:
Prius -- $31,280 CDN, Automatic Transmission
Jetta TDI -- $26,750 CDN, Manual Transmission
-----------------

You forgot to mention that Toyota is losing something like $16,000 per Prius. Add that into your figures and that "2x the cost" post by Rafael is only a mild exaggeration.

Alex Greene:
Prius -- $31,280 CDN, Automatic Transmission
Jetta TDI -- $26,750 CDN, Manual Transmission
-----------------

You forgot to mention that Toyota is losing something like $16,000 per Prius. Add that into your figures and that "2x the cost" post by Rafael is only a mild exaggeration.

Even the Olds from the 80s gets a very bad rap. It lacked a water separator and with the new popularity of diesels at the time a lot of really bad fuel hit the market. I would love to find one in good running order but you just can't . The drag racing crowd bought them all up! You can make monster small block using the diesel 350 block. Add a water separator to one and it is a good reliable engine. It is however NOTHING like the state of the art diesel they have in Europe. They are smooth, powerful, and feel a lot like a modern gas motor. I almost bought a Jetta TDI but they wouldn't budge on the price.
A modern TDI is nothing like the diesels you remember from the 80s. I just hope Honda puts one in the Element. That would make a great Hurricane evac mobile.

Ok, im sorry, i didnt know that toyota was making up for the huge price of the prius.. because last time i checked 31k didnt cover even for the production costs...

Anyway.. they can make up for the price, but can they for the terrible handling, absolute lack of power and the fact that one day or another you will end up with and "old" prius, needing service, maybe (most certanly) a battery change..

Please, dont think im against the prius.. I really like the idea. I just dont think we have the tecnology to make this cars work like they should yet.

I give you a simple example, if you are ok with the lack of power and handling of the prius. Try driving 1.4 TDI small car, the old ones already get more than 70mpg. Try using the economy tires from the prius and the alternator getting energy from the brakes (from the new bmw and mercedes) than you have something really good to offer the costumer.

Put this in a chassi with good aerodynamics, and BANG! you have a car thats is more environment friendly (no batterys to prodoce or dispose) than the prius, cost less, and has way better highway mpg than the prius.. (oh.. and it doesnt handle so bad, because it doesnt have the extra weight)

Rafael: I did not argue in favor or against the Prius. I just pointed out that your statement about its cost is grossly exagerated.

Care to mention where you got the information that Toyota is *currently* losing money on Prius sales?

Wouldn't a turbo diesel hybrid be the most effecient for long distance and in town driving?

How much do you statistic buffs think the above would cost. And what kind of mileage city/highway would one get?

I have to generally agree with the diesel supporters here, European manufacturers have for the past 10 or so years been pushing diesel models for their better MPG, and the European public has been buying them because diesel fuel in Europe costs about 2/3 of what 98 octane gasoline does.

Here in the US, the only reason diesel vehicles are so rare is because the "big three" lack the technology and the Japanese, even with their technology advantage over the big three, don't have any mass diesel manufacturing experience.

When the French automaker Reneault released a 1 liter 3 cylinder engine that ran better than 4 litres/100km (roughly 61MPG) back in the late 90's, I had to laugh when Toyota introduced the Prius to the US.

For the better part of this decade the US has been wasting time and resources developing ethanol infrastructure and gasoline-electric models while Europeans have enjoyed fuel-efficient high-torque turbo-diesels for years.

Perhaps European influence/competition will finally wake up the US and Japanese manufacturers to begin seriously considering diesels.

I am not a hybrid hater, but if your going to "mate" an electric powerplant to a car engine to get better mileage, with today's technology, you could "really" use your brain and easily design a HYBRID-DIESEL.

100MPG anyone???

In regards to Toyota CURRENTLY losing money on every prius they sell, link a reputable source, or it didn't happen.

I'm curious whether the MPG figures mentioned in the article are using the old standards or the new standards for testing. The prius dropped from 60mpg on the sticker to 40mpg when moving from the old to the new system. Anyone know how they're testing these figures?

I read an article couple years ago, if im not wrong, at the washington post, exactly about the prohibitive cost of production of the prius. This could have changed, and i posted my comment based in old information. But for me something still sounds wrong on this equation... build a normal car with a very popular (at least in europe) diesel engine should cost less than a very complicated car with two engines and a couple of batterys... anyway.. thats up to the market, not to me...
So if i passed wrong information, im sorry...

The point I wanted to make is.. the hybrid car today dont deliver what the diesels can at the same price range... (early adopters are paying the price) (Please consider it all, price, confort, handling, power, fuel economy, emissions, etc)

Please if anyone had the chance to drive both the prius and the jetta diesel (as i did) and dont agree with me, post here why.

Don't blame the big three for not knowing how to make a diesel. They market plenty of diesels in Europe, but have trouble meeting the pollution restrictions in the US.

For the above hybrid diesel question there are numerous articles about bosch developing parts to make it possible. Quick start on a diesel appears to be a little bit more difficult that a gasoline engine.

I LIVE in Toyota Japan. While I have no concrete evidence to prove otherwise, I can say, just by living here, that Toyota is not in the business of losing money. That is reserved for the big three back in the U.S. Toyota (the city) is developing at an insane rate. Just looking at the difference between Detroit and Toyota (born in Detroit, currently live in Toyota), I can say that Toyota (the car company) is doing quite well. Oh, and the 50% of base salary bonuses that many of my Toyota-employed friends are receiving would also suggest that Toyota is very financially healthy.

As for the Honda Accord diesel, 52 mpg seems kind of high (especially with the new 2008 EPA standards), but it definitely will get good mileage. How good remains to be seen. Better come standard with a manual trans though...

We needed Diesel cars awhile ago. Good job VW for keeping it in north america all these years.

Diesel engines are only 2nd to co2 emissions, hybrid being #1.

Now say 10years from now, what is to become of the batteries in hybrids?

Best of luck Honda. I love ur cars, and I only ask a few things....Diesel models should be loaded with features (sunroof ac etc) and give us the option for a manual tranny.

Also the local garage would work on a diesel, but highly unlikely on a hybrid.

Just my 2cents

it doesnt matter if it achieves 60mpg or not...
as long it is new diesel technology...
it will be far better than a gasoline one, especially, knowing that an accord is quite heavy and doesn't need very fast acceleration (horsepower) only torque.

I don't care if this car doesn't get 60mpg. I would be happy with a figure close to 30-40. I'm sold on this if they release it.

Cha-ching!

I had a Opel Vectra diesel in Spain last summer. It's similar to a Mazda 6 in size. Driving it on the autovia and in major cities like Valencia, Granana, Seville, and Cadiz, I still averaged 41 mpg over the trip.

Back in the late '70's I had an Olds Diesel Station Wagon (think an Audi A6 Avant for those in Europe) as a "company car". I was a field services engineer and needed to cover a fairly large geographic area. Once I convinced management to allow me to use a local Diesel repair shop INSTEAD of the "Factory Authorized" service center and I let them make the modifications necessary (pretty much a better fuel filter and a water seperator) I had a GREAT highway car! It got 30-35 MPG on the highway and 25+ around town (auto/air/etc). Currently I have a Nissan Frontier Crew Cab "mini" pickup truck that gets, AT BEST, 19mpg. My wife has a 2005 New Beetle TDI manual that gets 43+MPG around town and 48+MPG on the highway. Great little car, LOVE to drive it! Plenty of pep (more than enough to get you in trouble!), comfortable and QUITE quick! I wish I'd thought a bit more when I purchased the Nissan, I'd have bought a "3/4" ton Turbo Diesel pickup instead (I need the ability to tow). It would have gotten better mileage right off the lot than the Nissan does now and after a 20Kmile or so break in (yes Diesel's take longer to fully break in!) would have gotten better mileage towing than my Nissan gets empty!

I drive a Dodge Ram 2500 Cummins Turbo Diesel. I can get 20 mpg empty on the Interstate highway.

My friend HAD a Toyota Highlander SUV. He could squeeze 15 mpg out of it if he kept the speed around 65 mph.

Modern diesel engines are currently using a series of multiple injections to achieve quieter engines. Quiet does come at a cost though. Computers. Slightly more fuel.

The newer ULSD uses EGR and particulate filter technolgy. We will see how that works as the new 2007's get high mileage.

I'll bet that 60 MPG is based upon the Imperial (UK) gallon, which would convert to almost 50 MPG using a U.S. Liquid Gallon.

it's really nothing spectacular.. I have a VW Psssat TDI... it's quite a large car(by UK standards), and I think rated at 35 mpg overall... yet on the motorway cruising at about 70mph I frequently get around 62-65mpg... of course, it's a mannual... but if they made a diesel hybrid, THAT would be something to write home about....

While diesels have better fuel economy, the first cost is higher ($4K-5K option on trucks, $3K on cars). In Europe, where the fuel is heavily taxed, diesel is taxed less. That allows the owner to recoup the higher costs.

In the US where gas is cheap (even $3/gallon isn't real expensive), and diesel is close in price to gasoline (in San Antonio, diesel has been 10-20 cents MORE per gallon), the operator would have to own the car for years and years to break even on the costs. THAT's why diesels are more prevalent.

Very soon, when Tier II emissions start (2009 I think), the diesel economy will go down. Fuel is going to be wasted to provide for heat in the exhaust aftertreatment to regenerate particulate filters, and the chemically convert the NOx in an LNT. There will even be throttles on the engines. This will bring diesel fuel economy closer to gasoline engines, as well as increase the costs due to new engine hardware and expensive exhaust aftertreatment. All this will do is prolong the break-even point for recovering the higher first cost. THAT's why you don't see a big rush to release diesels in the US.

Its been pointed out that the Big 3 have plenty of modern, high performance, and quiet diesels in production. They just happen to be in Opels, European Fords, and Mercedes. At any point they could have released those engines here. It just didn't make financial sense when fuel was $1.50 a gallon, and barely does when fuel is $3.00 a gallon.

i think honda has great ideal about going diesel. which is great but what if we can use viggie oil it only cost 0$ u can get from ur local china buffet or burger king or micky d's.diesel run forever?!

The Accord was definitely the wrong car for a V6 hybrid. No one buys an Accord because they're so much fun to drive with its great Honda suspension bushing - ;http://www.discounthonparts.com/honda-suspension-bushing/ people buy Accords for the reliability and total cost of ownership. The hybrid model, which gave approximately the same mileage as the four-banger for an extra $10k, probably sold about as well as a V8 Accord would sell.
I'd still like to see someone build a hybrid muscle car. People probably won't get the idea of a non-green hybrid until they see a hybrid plant in something like a Mustang.

I bought a Euro Honda Accord 2.2 diesel, which basicaly is an Acura TSX. 50 mpg is realy easy to achieve out of city, if you are driving legaly you could get up to 55 mpg with less efort using also A/C. Driving on motorway at speeds around 100 mph decrease the fuel economy to about 35 mpg, and in city to 25-30 mpg. It has only 140 horse power, that some of you would say are not so many, but the torque of this diesel engine makes the car fun to drive, and the over all perfomance is quite similar to an automatic Acura TSX 2.4 190 CP.

I have an 85 golg with 567,000 on the orig motor.
You cant beat a vdub diesel

I have an 85 golf with 567,000 on the orig motor.
You cant beat a vdub diesel

Went to Europe last summer with my family - 2 adults and 3 teens for a total weight of about 800 lbs plus luggage - and rented a VW Touran which is about the size of an older model Honda Odyssey. It had a diesel engine and I drove a minimun of 90 MPH everywhere I went; I learned to drive in Europe back in the 60's and 70's. This car had significant power going UP the Alps at 90 MPH and cruised well at 120 MPH - - - - I averaged 32 MPG ! Just the facts! I came back to the U.S. really PISSED that we can't get cars like this here inthe U.S. and you should be too!

Does anyone know if it will be rated for B99?

Hey any of you who put down a diesel haven't a clue . I have been driving a VW diesel for three years .. Bought it new in 02 .Diesels rock kick ass.........

Hey any of you who put down a diesel haven't a clue . I have been driving a VW diesel for three years .. Bought it new in 02 .Diesels rock kick ass.........

The diesel Accord recently average over 130 mph on a test track for 24 hours. Real world driving tests are averaging around 60 mpg. I have driven the new 2009 diesel Jetta. It is quiet, powerful, comfortable, and the magazine folks that have tested them are reporting nearly 60 mpg on the open road. Yes, Americans, wake up, diesels are for real. The Jetta can also tow 2,000 pounds--try that with a Prius, civic or Corolla.