Washington Proposal Gives Automakers in the U.S. Until 2020 to Achieve 35 mpg

I don't understand Detroit hurting because of added requirements, standards, procedures, etc. for reduced emmitions and added economy.
If this is difficult, it should be difficult for all car companies in Japan, Europe, etc selling in the States ?
I just don't get it. !!!

I personally think the future is not much better gas cars, hydrogen, etc. But super-capacitors that can be fully charged in 1 minute, can have a near limitless recharging times, can be any shape, and have the energy density of normal batteries and WAY better power density. (They keep getting better/cheaper). A small engine & tank is just used to charge the capacitor/battery long enough to get to the next recharging station.

Small motorbikes with 100+ mpg AND 100+ kph have been running in 3rd-world countries for decades.

Lets break these down:

Clutchless manual trans: Last I checked most people don't like to drive manual transmissions with or without the clutch.

CVT: Every CVT I've ever driven has no punch to it do to low torque bands so it will only help cars. 20% fuel gain is a little optimistic. More like 10%.

Adaptive Auto Trans: I can't name a car that doesn't have this now adays.

Aerodynamics: No brainier

Active Air Management: Most cars have this today as well.

Lighter materials??: Hum yeah lets just do a fiber glass shell and add roll bars to ever car!

Cylinder Deactivation: In theory 15 to 20% fuel gain is possible but in reality it's more like 7 to 10%

Hybrids: Depends on the type of Hybrid. Battery Hybrid No. The cost of replacing the battery every 5 years out weighs the cost of gas and the batteries are worse overall for the environment (highly toxic) and hard for technicians to work don do to higher voltage the batteries must use. Fuel cell and hydrogen Hybrids could give you good fule !!

Truth is you could get 40 mpg on paper today, but in reality you can't. 30 to 32 mpg (even with a hybrid) is about what you can get today. In 5 to 10 years this will most likely be possible.

Oh... and I forgot E85... What a joke. Less fuel efficient, cost more, takes more energy to produce, makes the cost of everything else more expensive (corn, milk, meat, etc...) and doesn't really solve the pollution problems. Oh and did I mention it's corrosive?

"Small motorbikes with 100+ mpg AND 100+ kph have been running in 3rd-world countries for decades."

Wow! A bike that can hit 62 mph?! That'll almost keep you from getting splattered on the highway. Almost.

Regarding CVT's, Nissan gave a pair of identical cars to Car and Driver (I forget which model) where the only difference was one was an automatic and the other had the CVT. The CVT was a little faster (say 10-15%) in acceleration times, but actually got about 10-15% LESS mpg than the automatic did.

Regarding Hybrids, BMW has built the best hybrid in their R&D department (unfortunately, as of now, they have no intentions of putting it into production). They built a gas / steam hybrid. It used the heat from the exhaust to flash-boil the coolant, run it through a steam engine, re-condense, then go through the cooling system as usual. This adds a slight bit of weight, but even with the added weight it results in a 20% gain in mpg and never needs extra maintenance (you just change the coolant like you normally would every so often).

"Truth is you could get 40 mpg on paper today, but in reality you can't. 30 to 32 mpg (even with a hybrid) is about what you can get today."

Actually, that's not true. I can get 38 mpg on my '96 Protege (gasoline, not diesel) with a 1.5 liter inline 4 and a 5 speed manual. I'm trying to see if I can hit 40 mpg, but unfortunately I keep running into spots where I need to rev high for some quick passing / getting out of the way of a truck running a red light and that kills my attempt.

wow 2020 that is so far away, by that many years just achieving 40mpg isnt that much of a difference, and by that time we will be needing gas mask....

Won't the price of gas be through the roof in 2020? Unless we start drilling our own country (gasp!) lol.

Remy, of course cars can get above 30-32 mpg, they already do. I believe James was referring to Fleet mileage, which is what the proposal in the article is trying to mandate. It is a lot harder to improve average mileage in your fleet when you have a wide range of cars and trucks. If the law applied only to cars and small trucks I don't think it would be a problem.

Also if you look at that chart above, you'll be getting the wrong idea. As James pointed out, those numbers are all pretty flawed. Anyone compare a Hybrid model to the same model with a conventional drivetrain? 120% is an insane figure even in a best-case scenario.

As for a Hybrid steam engine, are you sure they were heating up the COOLANT, and not a seperate, second water loop? You'll be raising engine temperatures if you don't add some serious additional cooling, and the whole idea starts to raise questions concerning actual benefits vs cost, weight, and long-term repair costs.

Alex, they extended the coolant system so it was much larger than it normally would be, so the engine temperature is unaffected. You can look it up online and find stuff on it.

I drive an old 94 Saturn SC2 and combined highway and city, my meager old car still gets 30-32mpg with 191k showing on the odometer. I don't understand how american car makers can get by with making cars that get below 30mpg now days. Toyota and Honda have 2-3 models that are not hybrid that get above 38mpg. You don't need to take the USS-Chevy out for a drive or drive it back and forth to work every day, buy a small car and save the planet and your wallet.

Seems like so many of our "better" ideas for cars are actually so much worse! Just stop it with these insanely giant engines that people wind up commuting to work with. You do NOT need to commute to the office in a Hummer H2 or Suburban!

Ever seen the cars in europe? Small, efficient. Why? Cuz the gas is insanely expensive. Even the trucks and buses are more efficient.

http://clubs.ccsu.edu/recorder/editorial/editorial_item.asp?NewsID=188

I'm sorry but I disagree entirely.

I believe that the avg CAFE gas rating should go up 0.33 MPG per year. That means that by 2020 the avg US vehicle should average 30MPG.

Also there should be incentives for manufactuers to produce Diesel/ Bio-Diesel and Ethenol and other alternative vehicles. Incentives to take the edge off the production costs.

Also we are getting a little silly on the Diesel regulations, Ours is more strict then Europes at this point and because there is not enought money to be made making diesels in the US we are not putting them in more vehicles.

Diesel fuel are 30%+ more useable power per gallon then Gas/ Petrol. So it is possible to get 30% more mileage from a Diesel engine then a gas engine.

On top of that plug in hybrids are the way to go. I travel 10 miles to

Mack, CAFE regulations are part of the problem. Since CAFE allows mpg to decrease as vehicle weight increases, all CAFE regulations do is inspire companies to build bigger, heavier, and less fuel efficient cars.

I'd rather see everything go over to diesel / bio-diesel than all of this electro-car crap.

I think that by clutchless manual they mean clutch pedal-less automated manual. They still have an actual clutch, some of them actually have 2, but there is no clutch pedal and it can run in full automatic mode.

http://paultan.org/archives/2006/06/26/vw-phases-out-automatics-makes-way-for-dsg/

one of the hard parts to getting 30 + is us consumers like Big v6 / v8 cars and the car makers don't offer US customers good equipment in small efficient cars
IE Toyota Yaris hatch in the us its only a 3 dr car in Canada and Mexico the hatch is also a 5 dr and comes in
less cheap models.
toyota doesn't import it because it will DIE on the shelf

"I therefore ask the Congress, above and beyond the increases I have earlier requested for space activities, to provide the funds which are needed to meet the following national goals:

First, I believe that this nation should commit itself to achieving the goal, before this decade is out, of landing a man on the moon and returning him safely to the earth."

May 25, 1961. So let's see:

Nine years to get TO THE MOON.

Thirteen years to IMPROVE GAS MILEAGE. (???)

Our problem is simply the government's practical example set forth of unlimited, unchecked spending propelled by seemingly limitless fiscal irresponsibility, bolstered by corporate protectionism.

Looking forward to the new Prius, though... we bought a 2007 Civic (non-hybrid) after our 94 finally gave out, but the Prius just looks pretty cool. Fact is, it shouldn't take regulations for people to buy these things.

'Nuff said.