What do side airbags matter when all those Canadians are wearing heavy coats and parkas anyway?

Why does anyone need side airbags? Hell, I don't even want ONE airbag in a car, let alone the 15-20 that come on most new cars. It's just unnecessary weight and money going to airbag companies (and don't think for a second they weren't lobbying the government to make them mandatory). People lived for decades without airbags and there weren't millions dying left and right. It's all part of the bogus "if you put more crap on the car it will compensate for driver stupidity" myth that politicians / companies that invent new tech for cars promote. No matter how much crap you put on cars, you'll never stop morons from getting themselves killed.

best written article ever

I'm a Canadian, and I bought a Fit this year solely because of its extra safety features over similar small cars.

Honda's gripe on this subject just pisses me off. Instead of threatening to rip out safety features, they could just replace the engine with one of the smaller ones they sell in Europe. The Fit engine in the North American models is the "sport" engine for overseas. They sell Fits there with smaller, more fuel efficient engines than even the one its got.

Furthermore, I get better than the rated gas mileage... easily better than 6 L/100 km.

Necessary safety features? None of my cars have either an airbag of any sort or ABS. Although ABS I do think would be nice to have, it is in no way necessary to consider a car safe is it? But my car gets about half that gas milage...

Put run flats on the car and pull out the spare.

To me it sounds like they'd only have to make these features optional. Heck, they could even make them no-cost options, though perhaps that would rightly be seen as an end-run around the fuel economy test procedures.

Side airbags are not NECESSARY. As a previous commenter stated, people have lived through car crashes for years without them. I think ABS is debatable as a necessity. I don't think putting in a smaller and slower engine in the car would be a better idea considering the Yaris would then have the advantage of having a more powerful engine. And just because you (Steve) would probably be ok with that; that doesn't mean there are enough like minded people like you to make Honda enough money.

I have been in 3 accidents and the air bags never went off. One accident I even rolled the car. So much for them being a safety feature. If air bags are so good why doesn't NASCAR use them? I suggest we all use five point safety belts and helmets.

Heres my personal take on this :

1. What one comment said about pulling the spare isn't possible, due to laws, and the weight is so minimal it wont influence gas mileage, but its a good idea with the advent of run-flats.

2. Why did ABS get caught up in this debate? Many tests on ABS shows that it doesn't actually help the car stop under normal situations. Furthermore, half the people with ABS don't know how to properly use it, and its a ridiculously expensive thing to ever have to service ( As a dealer service tech, and a jeep owner, I've never seen an ABS control module under $800 ). Stability control does way more to keep a car in driver control than any other system. Don't go saying that ABS needs to be standard when under most circumstances it does squat ( unless you feel that you cant tap your own brakes )

3. " Safety " in a car is almost a contradictory statement. Again, how many people are killed in car accidents each year, despite the existence of these complex systems.

4. Overall, most safety comes down to the driver. A driver who understands the limits of the car and themselves and obeys the laws on the road is far better off than simply having all these safety features. If i was Honda, i would make the extra safety features an option, and even a recommended one at that. That way, those who really want that rebate can have it, but at their own risk. Is .1L per 100 KM REALLY that big of a deal? Just think how big your morning cup of coffee is.....

LOL

ABS is a must !!!

With ABS you can steer and breake at one time !

And my car's have a Brake Assist and EBD It save lives. see http://www.mitsubishi-motors.com/corporate/about_us/technology/safety/e/abs.html

my car is Fiat Grande Punto (6.1L/100)

How about you buy the Toyota then. It has ABS and side air bags standard.

Why would consumption go down by removing the ABS and the airbags? It doesn't make any sense at all to me. My european Toyota Yaris has ABS and 7 airbags (or more, lost count there) and consumes 4lt/100km on the highway (that's well below the 6.3 that the article mentions) and 6lt/100km in the city. All the safety measures plus I have forgotten what gasoline means. By the european tests it scores 5 stars in safety.
On the other hand, the Jazz (="Fit" in the US) consumes more and only scores 4 stars in the crash tests. I think that american manufacturers are looking for excuses.
Oh, and the 1000$ return is already in place in europe. I got 1200 euros exchange for my old car, 600 euros off the base price and a 10% off when buying the Yaris, just because the Yaris is a "Green" car.

ways to reduce weight n' fuel comsumption:
1. narrower tyres or tyres with less rolling friction
2. lighter rims
3. aluminum hoods, roof top
4. fine tune the gear ratio
5. refine the engine
6. reprogramme combustion secquence
7. reduce friction in drivetrain
8. refine aerodynamics
9. electric-power assist steering (like the one in BMW 1 series) instead of traditional vacuum power assist steering
10. air-con w/ smaller output
11. dynamo w/ smaller output
12. lighter battery
13. smaller gas tank

other ways to reduce weight n' fuel comsumption:
1. narrower tyres or tyres with less rolling friction
2. lighter rims
3. aluminum hoods, roof top
4. fine tune the gear ratio
5. refine the engine
6. reprogramme combustion secquence
7. reduce friction in drivetrain
8. refine aerodynamics
9. electric-power assist steering (like the one in BMW 1 series) instead of traditional vacuum power assist steering
10. air-con w/ smaller output
11. dynamo w/ smaller output
12. lighter battery
13. smaller gas tank

ABS is not about braking. It's about leaving some traction for steering to avoid an obstacle while braking.
Somehow the public was mis-informed when ABS came on the market. In fact ABS often adds to braking distance, especially over threshold braking techniques.
You only have so much traction available. You can use it for cornering, or stopping - doing both together without ABS = skidding straight into the obstacle.

My wife's 2006 VW has ABS and traction control and airbags that blow up and surround you like a mars lander. My 2002 Toyota has only front airbags and no ABS. I'm perfectly comfortable driving in all weather without ABS because I know how to control my braking from years of experience driving on slick surfaces. ABS didn't prevent the Nissan from rear ending me a few years ago after I managed to stop on a slick road.

If you control your braking effectively you can actually brake better without ABS. Of course this applies to cars with or without ABS. The bottom line is that it's better for the vast majority of drivers and offers you improved steering control in a full braking situation on any type surface.

It could be argued that ABS gives drivers a false sense of security, like 4 wheel drive. Ever see folks hauling around on snowy days in their 4wd SUVs not realizing that all cars have 4 wheel brakes?

The only reason small cars like the Yaris are dangerous is because so many of your fellow drivers are in oversized trucks.

My Opel Astra Twintop has a cartload of airbags, plus ABS and ESP stability control and does a lot better than 6.5 litres/100Km in real life driving. It does not have an underpowered miniengine, but a 150 Hp diesel engine with impressive acceleration and a top speed above 130 mph. And the base version received the maximum of 5 stars in the Euroncap safety tests.

Oh, and at the push of a button, the metal roof folds into the trunk.

Opel is GM Europe!! I fail to understand how they sell such nice pieces of engineering this side of the Atlantic, and those ugly, gas-guzzling titans in the US. It also beats me how American consumers are so irresponsible as to move around in those planet mowers. 15mpg behemoths should be directly forbidden from the roads, and people who drive them publicly chastised!

About ABS, anyone who has skidded out in a car that doesn't have ABS can tell you there is no control. Especially in winter. I don't really see not getting ABS on my next car, but since I'm still a poor college student I'll have to deal with it for now.

The Canadian spec Yaris and Fit are within a few kgs of each other in weight, The engines have the same displacement and roughly the same horsepower. Interestingly the Toyota Corolla (standard transmission model) qualifies for the rebate as well. I don't think Honda needs to do anything as drastic as removing safety equipment. They can probably make the cut with some programming tweaks to the engine management computer. Replacing the stock steel rims with alloy rims might save enough weight to make the difference. If they have to do more I'd rather see a change to gear ratios than a removal of safety equipment.

A car without ABS drives better than a car with ABS, but the driver must know how to drive it and have the good reflex. It stops quicker and under all conditions. The trick is just during an emergency stop to push very strong the brake pedal until the tyres slide and the release the brake pedal, push again, everything very quickly. You will then not loose the control of your car, even during a turn, and it stops quicker than a car equipped with ABS, just try it.

One friend had an small accident with a car because of the ABS. Coming from the road, he wanted to go to a park place, but there was a sidewalk inbetween. When his front wheels reached the sidewalk, it activated the ABS and the car didn't want to stop afterward, then he hit a wall.

to Lobotomik: "Opel is GM Europe!! I fail to understand how they sell such nice pieces of engineering this side of the Atlantic, and those ugly, gas-guzzling titans in the US."

Opel belongs to GM, but it is a german automaker, which manufactures cars for Europe.

"A car without ABS drives better than a car with ABS, but the driver must know how to drive it and have the good reflex. It stops quicker and under all conditions. The trick is just during an emergency stop to push very strong the brake pedal until the tyres slide and the release the brake pedal, push again, everything very quickly. You will then not loose the control of your car, even during a turn, and it stops quicker than a car equipped with ABS, just try it."

Absolutely. Add in a manual and you can stop REAL quick. My car is a 5-speed manual with non-ABS brakes and I've never had a problem with it - sure, there's the rare occasion when I'm preoccupied and it takes me a few seconds to think about what I'm doing and then have to pull out of a slide / spin, but I've never had a problem with getting things back to good.

Wow...really surprised at you budding Sir Isaac Newton's out there...got the theory to back up your idiotic ranting??

ABS is hopeless...can't you tap the brakes?...hmm yeah I can tap em 20 times a second...moron

Airbags are hopeless...yeah they didn't even go off when I had three accidents...did you crash at over 15 km/h or did you ever actually get them serviced? Hey do you even wear a seat belt?

Time and time and time again the tests have shown ABS outbrakes and outsteers even racing level drivers in ALL conditions.

'Add in a manual and you can stop REAL quick'...really? Just blow up your gearbox dummy...ever seen an F1 driver or other circuit/rally racer use gearbox's to stop? Don't even start on about 'engine braking'. Man.

People read up about things before you comment. Do you know the TWO most IMPORTANT safety features of a car???

Seat belts...which obviously some of you would probably not even wear...ever heard of the Darwin Awards?

and drum roll....side airbags...wait...I'll repeat it...side airbags...

Maybe you all should go riding around on motorbikes with a bandana, a wife beater and some sandles...because you can!

"Time and time and time again the tests have shown ABS outbrakes and outsteers even racing level drivers in ALL conditions."

That's why ABS is used on all racing cars, isn't it?

ABS is more efficient on average if we consider all the drivers, as 99% of them are not trained to do emergency stopping. All those tests are done on a flat road, dry, wet or with snow, but I hope that you will not have to do an emergency stop in a bumpy road, or when you have a small hole in the road. Your braking might get desactivated during 3-6 feets and this might do all the difference. This problem often occurs with cheap cars, with cheap ABS, which were manufactured before year 2000, it dependings of course of the brand.

No you till don't get it - racing cars have HUGE tires called 'slicks' which get really hot and actually 'tack' themselves on the road.

'Normal cars' will always work better with ABS and humans are physically not capable of pulsing their leg like an ABS system.

If that cheap cars ABS is that useless - why buy them? Is your life not worth it?

No amount of driver training will get you by in a dark rainy condition where you ARE going to crash...at least ABS will slow you enough that you may escape serious injury...try emergengy race bred braking then and guarantee me you'd rather put your life in the hands of an non ABS car.

Oh and the nail the coffin...how many bloody US cars WITHOUT ABS actually have good brakes? I mean cars that can actually stop in say 35 metres from 100 kph? Look up some stats as even if you put 10 grand worth of racing brakes on a properly setup old car it still doesn't stop...usually they stop in about 40+ metres...yeah they don't fade but 5 or 10 metres is a HUGE difference in a crash...oh and if did want them would your UBER racing brakes actually be warm at the time they need to be used? Doubt it.

Lets face it...imagine how badly an SUV or other crappy non ABS car would stop with average tires, mum and the kids on board and a bottom of the barrel braking package...50 metres?

Oops there goes the soccer mum!

ABS is better for many of the drivers on the road today, because of how bad most of the drivers are on the road today. A car without abs and used properly will always stop faster, and even have just as much control. My 93 Civic stops on a dime without abs. The trick is without abs to not pump the brakes.... big no no. But find the threshold point at which the tires start to break traction then lightly back off the pedal a little bit, that is the proper way to do it. The threshold point is usually around 85 % pedal on dry pavement. Of course this depends on the tires, car, brake wear etc.

AmazedMkII if you have enough experience a car without abs will ALWAYS stop faster. My car doesnt have the top of the line braking systems at all, yet it can stop faster then a smaller newer car (Toyota Echo) with abs. I know because ive done tests on both. Lots of cars could stop from 100 KM/H in 35 metres even though this is an exceptionally good stopping distance, without abs. As long as you dont lock the brakes, and actually use the proper technique. Oh and your argument about race cars, why dont we turn to cop cars. They do not have any form of abs, nor do they have racing slicks, why don't they have ABS if its soo good ?. However I will agree with you that ABS is better for the majority of drivers because of the skill level that most drivers are at.

I'm back again.

Look, I live in Australia - ALL Aussie cop cars are hotted up machines with Gen III-Gen IV Chev V8s, 280+KW, sports suspension and high performance brakes with ABS - u call them the GTO or something. They stop ok...not fantastically, but they pull up ok in around 38-44 metres depending on the surface. I bet they stop alot better than the black and whites in the US - in every condition. Not bagging your US cop cars, but they are big heavy cars that don't seem to ride that well. No ABS is just crazy.

Even Lotus Exiges have ABS, Ferraris...any car with a decent set of brakes with properly calibrated ABS is going to haul up on a dime. GTR Skyline anyone? My brother has a modified one, his friend has one and they have CRAZY brakes...and ABS.

Non ABS cars just don't stop well. I'm sorry but I drive a Toyota MR2 with upgraded suspension and performance brake pads and even it doesn't stop that well. It's ok, it doesn't fade, it pulls up pretty well - I've done driver training, raced Karts, driven racing cars and no normal car stops that well without ABS.

Get a Evo IX or a WRX STI or Honda Integra Type R and they stop...and funnily enough they have ABS.

I can't think of the last non ABS car that really stopped that well. Hell even that racing car that was mentioned before didn't stop that well. Racing brakes invariably make a car nearly 100% resistant to fade but usually don't pull it up like the EVO or Type R mentioned above.

A toyota Echo is a cheapo, bottom of the barrel car that is produced to a cost. It has crap brakes but I'll fairly sure is would still outbrake a stock 93 civic without ABS. One thing...why did you buy a civic without ABS? What about that wet weather situation above?

You just can't 'reliably' stop in any condition appart from straight, flat, dry roads with any degree of repeatability with a non ABS car.

Just save you own or someone elses life and drive ABS cars...next people will start talking about the right to not wear motor cycle helmets!

I seem to remember a couple years ago the teams in F1 were trying to get the sanctioning body to approve ABS...hmmm....why were they trying to do that? I mean, "non ABS cars will ALWAYS stop shorter if driven properly" guess those guys out there racing for a living just don't know what they are doing. I don't doubt that there are conditions where the non-ABS is better, in fact there DEFINATELY are if you are talking an older ABS equipped car that doesn't control each wheel separate. Then if one single tire is in the gravel and locks up, it brakes ALL tires less. Had that happen to me before, the mailbox wasn't happy with me afterwards. But a modern car with 4 channel ABS, under most conditions will stop better than your non-abs.

The reason racing cars do not have ABS is because they're not supposed to stop - they're supposed to GOOOOOOOOO!!!

What's up with the airbags? I've been in 9 car accidents, and none of the airbag actually deployed. The first one was a head-on collision. It was the seat belt in all of those accidents that kept me alive. Those death and health complications, due to accidents and explosion, at a airbag company never show up in the news. Try to querry for GAO reports (it's going to cost you some money), it should all be there in full glory since the 90s. Ferric azide was used in the original airbags. Sodium azide is the active agent in today's airbags.

Here is a few sites containing the toxicity of sodium azide and the environmental hazard of disposing sodium azide:

http://www.airbagonoff.com/Sodium_Azide.htm
http://www.sdearthtimes.com/et0800/et0800s9.html

The airbag industry didn't push for airbags at first, it was the insurance companies. The insurance companies are behind the mandatory seatbelt and helmet laws, too. They're trying to reduce their risk.

Insurance is a bet with a bookie. You're betting you'll have an accident. He's betting you won't. The bookie wants you to spend your money to improve his odds. Of course, when you win the car insurance bet, you lose.

this site is so anti-toyota/japanese cars
why is that?

Simple ABS primer:

When a tire locks up and begins sliding, you lose most of the friction that will slow you down(say 80% of a rolling tire) You must then release brake pressure and allow the tire to start rolling again, then increase the brake pressure again to stop the car. If you increase it too much, the tire will slide and you have to let off the brakes again.

An ABS system can do that many times a second, while a good driver can do it 2-3. A good driver will brake less than the maximum in order to ensure no tire start sliding. His braking force, unless he is omniscient, will be less than the maximum possible(say 90%) in any given situation or else he runs the risk of exceeding the maximum, locking a tire and skidding.

On a track, a good driver might be able to stop in a straight line faster than ABS, because he can slowly learn the limits of the tires and approach it repeatedly in a predictable manner. In the real world, every single tire has different grip levels, the road is constantly changing, and we need to steer with the front wheels. An ABS system that rapidly cycles between sliding and max braking effort will achieve more overall braking force than a good driver anywhere other than a controlled environment.

I know for a fact what Mike is talking about, I used to have a 93 Civic Si' standard 4-wheel Disc brakes and no ABS. Why? No idea..Does it stop on a dime? try a nickel!.. car stopped better than any car I've had since, including a bonneville, altima, and my integra with abs (which are now going off all the time even on dry pavement, causing me to slide..)

I was excited to always get a newer car but hated the droning noise, tapping of the pedal, and seemingly slower brake times.

Just because a race car or police car has ABS doesn't make it the best thing ever, it's just a luxury/safety option for the majority of the world, i/e/ racersand cops included. Not every cop and race car driver can exactly 'professionally' stop (though you figure a racer should)

I miss my little hatch everyday, and when it did crash, citation not to me, the airbag went off and i was only doing about 40, and kept be from possibly breaking my nose and or neck, (as i walked away with just a bloody nose)..

As for airbags and people living for year without them, that was when cars were gas guzzling inefficient tanks, not the 2lb. squishy vehicles we all drive today. The reason saftey has stayed the same with the change of car materials has been the airbag, i'm living proof, with the next best thing being to tin the windows (keeps all the shattered pieces together in a crash)