More power but it's still butt-ugly compared to most euro and jap sports cars. And wow that interior color is tasteless beyond hope.

"Blue is the best color - EVER - obviously. I mean it's just so apparent. You'd have to be blind to disagree; even then, you'd be wrong."

Styling, like favorite colors, is mostly subjective. Blanketing statements about styling sound just as dumb as the quote above.

They have them steering wheel paddle shifters I hears :) I love the progress cars have been making!

Ugly or no, thats a matter of perspective. It is rather difficult to find a machine with these specs at this price point. Chevy should applauded for attempting to remain competitive and affordable.

This will be the fastest car for the money to date

Niz, I understand why you have a shitty outlook on things, yo momma is butt ugly. Datz okie dokie do, caus aholes are very impotent parts of the human body. Cheers chump.

This would be noteworthy if they did it WITHOUT increasing the engine displacement. Seriously, at the rate they're going with it by the time the 2015 Vette comes out it'll have to be a whole foot longer just for the engine! European and Japanese companies can get that same power from an engine in the mid-to-high 4 liter range or low 5 liter range - why can't American companies figure it out?

Why 436hp from 6.0L engine and be proud of it is beyond me? only american can understand.

Chevy only gets that horse power because of their valve and cams. They can't aspirate as much as the 4 valve per cylinder engines with over head cams. But they get better mileage and better low end torque. And they are cheaper and easier to research and build versus a variable valve timing engine with two cams and 24 valves. That's why they can't get the power.

Teldar

I should have just said 4 valves per cylinder, not 24 valves, as their 8 cylinder actually has 24 valves. Was thinking six cylinders.

Two intake and one exhaust. Look up the specs.

And look at the horsepower some of Ford's engines make. They can be turbo'd from here to tomorrow and make 800hp, because of aspiration, but they simply don't have the low end power GM's push rod engines have. Comparatively.

Teldar

To Remy,

One thing you dont understand is that having a large-displacement engine means that the engine can make gobs of power at lower RPM's. Which means you do not have to run the engine at 9000rpm to get 400hp. The vette engine makes most of its power at around 4000 to 5000 rpm. This also means that low end torque is improved. This also means that the car can be geared lower. (a car doing 70mph with the engine turning about 1700 rpm is a lot quieter and more pleasant to live with on long trips than one turning at 3500 in 5th gear like most Honda motors). What is the fun driving a car in which all of the power is between 8500 and 9000 rpm and when you drop below it, it has all of the power of a 78 VW Rabbit? I myself like to have power available throughout the whole travel distance of the accelerator thank you very much.

"European and Japanese companies can get that same power from an engine in the mid-to-high 4 liter range or low 5 liter range"

uhh please inform me of any of those cars that get 4 hundred horses for less then 70K that isnt a truck. I would really like to know.

Hey man...
FLAT torque curve... show me a rice rocket that has one...There IS NO replacement for displacement. Forced induction is what it is, but low RPM torque(and wide tires) gets a car off the line. Plus, lil FWD cars get up and go, give 'em respect, but the fun factor on a RWD with monster power can't be beat. The chick factor on a 'Vette beats the 4-banger or turbo-six anyway. Make the car a foot longer. Put in a 9-liter with gobs of torque and HP at 2600 RPM. I want one. I want two. I would pay 100 grand for one even if a 50,000 rocked up Accord does a 1/4 mile a tenth faster. This car is strong, sexy, an American Icon... something that is destined to the past since the Vette is the only thing that GM can get right. Bring it on because it's what we all crave.

This Vette would be a good value if dealer markup weren't so ridiculous. Sure most exotic cars generate considerably more HP at 6.2 L displacement (around 600+ for Lambo, Ferrari, etc.) but they also cost about 2 or 3 times as much.

My biggest issue with the Vette are the brakes, still they aren't using real racing brakes -- this is crazy for a car that can go over 180 mph.

But I'd still take a Lotus Exige with a Turbo any day over the Vette, both on the street and on the track. With current gas prices in the US at $4/gallon the Lotus Exige is a no-brainer purchase.

Rob.

Well look at the physical size of the engines in euroboxes. There huge if you saw the unveiling of the ls7 it is almost half the size of the bmw 5l engine. you people bashing this car have never been in a c6 corvette at all it may not have the best interior but for a drivers car its amazing.

Mark, you can get that power from a smaller engine without having a ridiculously high rpm or a huge drop off in power below a certain point - also, what fun is an engine where you have to shift at 5,000?

"FLAT torque curve... show me a rice rocket that has one."

VW/Audi's 2 liter turbo four - 207 lb/ft from 1,800 to 5,000 - with 200hp at 5,500. That's pretty much the ideal torque curve. Also, Vette's (new ones, not the classic ones like Sting Ray's and such) are fairly ugly. The C6 is much better than the last 20 years, but it's still pretty fug.

Mike - "uhh please inform me of any of those cars that get 4 hundred horses for less then 70K that isnt a truck. "

I can tell you two real quick off the top of my head - Audi RS4 (420 hp if I recall correctly off of a 4.2 liter V8) and the upcoming E90 BMW M3 - 400+ (expected 420) hp from a 4 liter V8. The RS4 I'm fairly sure is in the high $50,000's to low $60,000's and the previous E46 M3 started at $47,000 something and the new one will be somewhere around $50,000. So, we have power, we have class, and we have solid engineering. Even if you wanted to charge me $30,000 more I'd pay it for that.

Also, I haven't been in classic Vette's so I can't say, but for new Vette's - never in my life have I been in such a big car and felt so claustrophobic. The interior is so cramped and horribly set up that it's laughable. What the heck did they do with all that space?! The body's huge....yet you have the interior space of a dresser drawer.

Teldar:
I should have just said 4 valves per cylinder, not 24 valves, as their 8 cylinder actually has 24 valves. Was thinking six cylinders.

Show me where it says it actually has 24 valves. The only thing I could find was old "rumors" saying it might have 3 valve per cylinder. None of the LS3 engine description lists it as having 24 valves(3 per cyl).

That audi rs4 yes it does make 400 hp but is alot slower then the vette and it gets way woste mpg then the vette. As well as both of the cars you listed are not in the corvettes price range of 40k but they do fall into the z06 price range, where they are killed on a track.

/shrug
The front end/grill & headlights remind me too much of a person wearing goggles while sitting in a g-Force machine.

Pretty much anyone arguing against the performance of the 'Vette is a retard.

All we have to do is look at the Z06. Show me a car that gets within 10 seconds of it's Nurburgring(sp?) time that doesn't cost more than double that of the 'Vette.

As far as the LS3, this "huge bulky" 6.2L engine gets well over 30mpg on the freeway. I can point you to several less-than-4L displacing cars from both german and japanese automakers that can't touch that.

Interior/Exterior opinions are subjective. I think it looks sexy. But no one can argue with performance numbers. The 'Vette can't be beat there. Sorry. Next article.

Just like the Viper...ever increaing displacement vs. modern technology.

Remember the ZR-1 of the early-mid 90's?

Quad-cam, 32 valve V-8......yeah, Lotus designed and built it.

Does this beast still have the skip-shift feature to meet MPG / Emissions?

Look at those vents lol ! They look as if they were pulled out of an economy/rental Cobalt.

WTF is wrong with Chevy? People paying $45k+ for a "toy" would gladly pay another $1,000 or so for a decent interior. This isn't a SunFire...

Some of you people are clueless. Including the writer of this article because they have a 7l 505hp model available and its not even mentioned.
6l is only 355ci, thats only 5ci bigger than the venerable chevy 350ci. Has anybody seen the cid of the viper? Get real people. For ground rumbling torque at low rpm's, nothing beats displacement.

Rob

Show me where it says it actually has 24 valves. The only thing I could find was old "rumors" saying it might have 3 valve per cylinder. None of the LS3 engine description lists it as having 24 valves(3 per cyl).

Looking around a few different sites last night, I found the config of the LS2 and found some information that the LS3 is (basically) (structurally and mechanically) the same as the LS2. The LS2 has 3 valves per cylinder. Now, while I don't KNOW that the LS3 has 3 valves per cylinder, the fact that I couldn't find anything on the apporx 10 sites I looked at that said there were any significant changes to the LS2 to make it the LS3, I think it's pretty safe to say that it is a 3 valve per cylinder engine.

And right on with the Lotus. I would rather have the best driving car in the world for half the price than some crappy vette that weighs twice as much (or more) and handles like it. And the performance isn't significantly better for the vette versus the Lotus.

Again, to everyone out there, it's the high pressure at low rpm intake of the push rod engine which makes the low end torque without a boost to induction that the OHV OHC engines need to make the same kind of power. The benefit of OHV OHC is increased top end. You can keep pushing more in and out of the cylinders as there is more room for more valves since you don't need all those cams in the bottom of the block. So you turbo an OHV OHC engine and you keep getting more power....

Heck the 2008 Shelby Mustang GT500 is producing more hp that that from a 5.4 liter engine guys in the 50k dollar range. Oh by the way the 6.4 liter powerstrok diesel is in the 430 hp range too.

"As well as both of the cars you listed are not in the corvettes price range of 40k but they do fall into the z06 price range, where they are killed on a track."

Actually, the E46 M3 was only a couple thousand more. Also, he specifically said "under $70,000", which I was answering. I'd rather have a car with decent horsepower and a lot of torque than some jumped up Civic with 1,000 hp and 150 lb/ft of torque, but you can't deny the performance of high end European cars that give up some torque for significantly lower weight. Hell, The new M3 SHOULD hit 60 in about 4 seconds (they're listing at 4.8 but BMW always understates the M3's performance. The E46 M3 was listed as 5.0 but they changed it to 4.8 since most people were getting to 60 in 4.5). Even with the LS2 engine making 400 hp and 400 lb/ft of torque, the Monaro/GTO still couldn't get to 60 in under 5 seconds (if I recall correctly) while at the same time the E46 M3 with 333 hp and 263 lb/ft of torque was doing it in 4.5 seconds.

American companies need to remember the age old saying --- "Work smarter, not harder". Sure, anyone could pump up on steroids and smash through a brick wall - but it's much easier to find the crack in the wall where you flick it and the wall comes tumbling down.

Well if we are going to voice out own personal opinion on looks. IMO, this looks better than any BUTT UGLY euro-rice burner that I have ever seen, (except for some mid engine V-12 exotics), which fall in a different class. And you guys keep trying to compare a N/A vette with a Turbo Euro car. Well........Lingenfelter has already taken a C6 and made 1000 Horsepower out of it with there twin turbo kit. So lets compare apples to apples if you want to count Forced induction.
Everyone has there own taste. I wouldn't go to some Honda web link and bash there stupid looking little rice burners. Grow up kiddies.

"uhh please inform me of any of those cars that get 4 hundred horses for less then 70K that isnt a truck. I would really like to know."

For 70K you can buy TWO tricked-out Volkswagen Jettas or Golfs with their 2.0 liter turbo engines (which produce over 200 horsepower EACH), and still have enough change to pay for the gas for the year. So let's do some math, kids... 2.0l has 200hp. Two of those would be 4.0l with 400hp. Three would be 6.0l (approximately the displacement of the ONE Chevy engine) and 600hp.
Personally, I'd go for the two VW's. I can head off one direction pretty quickly, and (if necessary) my spouse could head off another equally quickly. Ooooh... good comparison: if two cars can go 0-60 in 6 seconds in opposite directions, thus covering X number-of-feet for each in 6 seconds, is that the equivalent of one car 0-60 in 3 seconds?
Sorry... math & science are probably not the strong points of someone who buys a Corvette. Trying to make up for small appendages probably is. Hint, buy the turbo V-dub, trick it out with a new paint job, and spend the money you saved on Enzyte.

wow... u guys are all dorks.

Remy

Is the Z06 even under $70k? I thought the top end vettes were around $80k. Makes it a little harder to swallow with some of the performance of other cars out there which do still cost less.

If you want to talk about performance, I would think the WRX STI would have to be mentioned. What is it? 290 hp and 290 lb-ft of torquefrom a 2.5l 4 banger?

However, like Rob mentioned, if you want refined driving you need to go with the Lotus, not some beast weighing over half again as much.

Teldar

The STi is 300 and 300 (on the current/previous gen one - the new one is supposed to be 320 / 320). The Z06 is like $75k - but a base Vette, like what this article is talking about, is $40-50k.

I too dream of when I get out of college in a couple years and can afford a Lotus Exige S (though I'd probably see if I could get more boost out of the supercharger).

why american cars increase power with bigger displacement.... i hate that...theres so manny other areas to increase...and i dont mean turbo...

"theres so many other areas to increase...and i dont mean turbo..."

Exactly. When BMW came out with the new 3-series a year or so ago they revised their valve timings. The new valve timings resulted in a 13% power gain along with a 12% mpg gain. Now that's a worthwhile improvement since increasing power normally means lowering mpg.

For those of you bashing the horsepower per liter, I guess you forgot to mention that the smaller engines from Europe that make around the same power also usually use turbochargers, superchargers, or rev to insanely high rpms to get those numbers.

The Corvette is built for American streets where spinning an engine to 15,000 rpm to make power doesn't work. It's about brute torque and high end horsepower. Sure Ferrari's have 4-5L V12s that make 450hp. But they also cost several hundred thousand dollars and get shitty gas mileage compared to the Corvette (19 and 29 and most owners see better than that).

The Corvette is meant to be a cheap, affordable high end sports car that hangs with all the other much more expensive ones out there. Is it as refined in some areas? No. But for $45-50,000 what do you expect?

"For 70K you can buy TWO tricked-out Volkswagen Jettas or Golfs with their 2.0 liter turbo engines (which produce over 200 horsepower EACH), and still have enough change to pay for the gas for the year. So let's do some math, kids... 2.0l has 200hp. Two of those would be 4.0l with 400hp. Three would be 6.0l (approximately the displacement of the ONE Chevy engine) and 600hp."

To this complete idiot, engines don't work that way you retard. You don't just double the displacement and double the horsepower. If you wanted to, you could get 600hp out of a 2.0L engine. Would you be able to drive it on the street? No. But you can do it. Chevy could've gotten 430 hp out of the LS2, but it would've meant sacrificing driveability.

I know plenty of guys with 4th gen Trans Ams that have 5.7L LS1s that get over 400 hp to the wheels (not at the crank like all cars are rated at) and still over 25 mpg. But Chevy has to meet emissions and fuel economy standards so they go with less aggressive camshafts and timing. A new camshaft in an LS2 will easily bump it up into the 500 hp at the crank range and still be driveable every day with decent mileage.

So all you people saying they suck because they have to bump up the displacement to get more horsepower, get your head out of your ass. How many other stock cars are there for $45-50,000 that will do a 12.5 in the 1/4 mile, kick ass on a road course, and still get 29 mpg highway.

Oh and an M3 doesn't do 0-60 in 4 seconds. I've raced them before. Try more like 5 by the average driver. BMW does that rating with a professional driver behind the wheel. And you say BMW underrates the performance of the M3? Guess what. Chevy ALWAYS underrates the horsepower of their engines. LS1 Camaros and Firebirds were rated at 330 hp with the performance package. They typically dynoed at 300-315 at the wheels with the 6 speed. That puts the actual horsepower at the crank when you figure in drivetrain loss at around 360-370. The LS2 is no different.

"I guess you forgot to mention that the smaller engines from Europe that make around the same power also usually use turbochargers, superchargers, or rev to insanely high rpms to get those numbers."

Usually - not all. BMW hasn't put forced induction on any M series cars to date.

"Oh and an M3 doesn't do 0-60 in 4 seconds."

I said the NEW M3 that's coming out in a few months or so should hit 60 in the 4 - 4.2 second range. The last gen M3 WAS listed at 5 (but revised to 4.8) and most people who reviewed the car hit 60 in 4.5 - 4.6 seconds.

"The Corvette is built for American streets where spinning an engine to 15,000 rpm to make power doesn't work."

Name one production car that goes anywhere near that high to hit max power. As far as I know, the highest rpm for max power in a current production car is the RX-8 which is at 8,500 rpms. I see plenty of those on the road and I've never seen one have trouble driving either.

I never said that it was a "bad" car - just that it's not some huge news that a bigger engine is making more power. If they got that same increase in power by improving their valve timings or other technology, it would be something worth reading about. As I said before, work smarter, not harder. Anyone can brute force something - it's much more impressive to use good engineering to achieve the same results - and with style.

Getting more power out of a given displacement is an engineering triumph, of course, but that power doesn't just magically come from nowhere. Variable valve timing, 4 valves per cylinder, more efficient intake and exhaust all contribute to more usable power to the drive wheels, but almost all of that extra power will come at higher RPM. GM could have done some or all of the above to get more power out of the 6 liter, but TORQUE would have improved only slightly, and the gains would have come at RPMs above 5000. Increasing the displacement may not be the technologically impressive way of getting increased power, but it does pay off in the simplicity of the engine, and that usable power coming at lower RPM. It also increases torque, especially at lower RPM, which more valves per cylinder won't do as well. Take the old 2.0 liter Neon 4 cylinder engine for example. It was available with 8 valves or 16 valves. The base 8 valve engine made about 130 hp. The 16-valve made 150. But they both made 125 pound-feet of torque. And the extra ponies in the 16 valve engine were only available above 4600 RPM. GM obviously wanted more power without requiring their drivers to wind the crap out of the engines. Knowing what their customers expect in a car, increasing displacement to increase power was the right call.

Gee and whats the life expectancy of a maxed out 4 or 6 banger pushing 400 or better hp. NOT VERY LONG.To each his own but ive seen many a 4 or 6 banger smoking away down the road after the meager life expectancy is wrought out of a motor that really can't handle it. Beides how about throwing twin turbo's or even a supercharger on the vette or even a viper now lets see the 4 or 6 bangers in the 4 liter range keep up not gonna happen.I could be wrong and I will be the first to admit when I am but most of those motors in the 4 liter range are turbo. Have a nice day guys and gals

I used to dream of Vettes, unitl I actually had the money to afford one. No thanks. Like all US cars, it has a big engine, big power, quick in a straight line, low tech, and a cheap interior/exterior.

The Corvette handles like crap, drives like crap, shifts like crap, brakes like crap, looks like crap; but hey its only $45-65K! If price per horsepower is your goal, I guess you can't beat it, but that's all you get. Specs are only half the story. The Viper sucks even more.

For a legitimate sportscar, I stick wtih Porsche and Ferrari for double the price. The only US sportscar that drives and handles as well as the Euros around a track is the Ford GT. Too bad its engine is low tech and not original, but you get 100HP/L. I personally love the Lambos, but they have serious reliability issues, and not as good as Porsche and Ferrari.

BMW and Audi are also better, but are slower than the Vette.

The vette does not handle like crap. Have you ever been inside a vette brian. Ive been to many track days where vettes witha good drive eat lotus porshes the lot. While lotus are fast they dont have things like interiors or ac or anything else that makes a car comfortable. While the vette does not have the best interior it is by no means a bad car. Ive owned a jag and it was a nice car but I couldnt count on it to take me anywhere. Now at 43k miles the water pump siezed and the car overheated and it blew the headgasket. This wasnt a old jag either it was a 2001 xk8. Now im not saying all euro cars suck but I havent seen very good results from audi or anything made in england. If you are around people who accually race their cars and not magazine race youll see that most bmws wont hit anywhere near quoted times, bmw m5 is a good example it has 500 hp but is really brittle and runs a quarter in 12.8. My neighbors mustang can do that from the factory with a solid axle. Plus the only m5 ive seen at a track day event blew the diff so cant say that car is gonna be any good.

Man some of you guys are fools... gm went with the 6.2 l engine not to increase hp. That could have been easily done with the ls2 6 l. Gm did it to consolidate the number of engine blocks they were making... look how many vehicles will share the 6.2. Smart move for a company that needs to cut excess spending.

6.2 l most trucks 6.2 most gm sports cars

that is all

i'll talk about being practical, save all your energies for all this car bashing.
the vette is still a muscle car for the US, where they have advantage in gas prices. The vette is a steal (cheap) if you're looking only at the engine performance but we all be disappointed if we expect it to handle,comfort, fuel mpg well.
i'd vote for a vette anytime for straightline/highway performance. Don't compare it to an bmw m5, it is 4 door sedan, with all the comfort and performance in it, you'll pay a lot for that.

in euro/jap cars. fuel price is a big factor.
that's why all the research and development goes to handling and extracting more engine performance for the same displacement. Talking about practical, stick a euro/jap car and a vette in heavy traffic, the vette will lose all those mpg bigtime since it is displacing 6 or 6.2 liters per unit of time. Turbocharging and variable valve timing is all there so that you'll use only the power when it is needed which explains the higher rpm's required for more power.
Supercars like ferrari and etc. is in a different class itself and looking only on its straight line performance is making me sad.

I'd always go for a Lotus for its mpg and handling performance for street use but it still expensive for most which explains the popularity of modding passenger cars to mimic or come close to the performance of true sports cars.

so it is a matter of how you will use it and your budget.

OK so I exaggerated a bit much with the Vette bashing. It's not that bad on the track, and it is pretty quick. Crude but effective, and it is fun. Not an everyday driving car. I'll stick with my expensive Euro trash.

You take any C5 or C6 Vette, call up Lingenfelter, drop another $25-$35k, and you have a street-docile 650-800hp twin turbo monster that still gets 25mpg or better. I remember seeing a video of a $140k C5 427TT doing 0-60 in 1.9 seconds with slicks, onto a 9ish second 1/4 mile. Corvettes are very reliable and capable in racing, and parts are cheap and easy to get for us in the US. Even a $10k C4 Z51 with a $10k LSx+T-56 transplant will dust more than a few $150k+ supercars. Vettes have [i]soul[/i] and they're [i]hongry[/i] for some tail-out curves! XD

Interesting.

Unknown you dare bring Jags into this argument? If I'm not mistaken, Jags are the bottom of this list in reliability.

Also, I believe many older Jag owners considered this horrible reliabilty part of it's "character".

Definately an interesting addition to this bicker contest.

Oh, to z3nny....

Show us some love. You've got stats, give us credible links to back them up.

I'm a fan of info based on facts. Statements don't make my blood boil with enthusiasm.

List the links and I won't call B.S. on you.

The discussion that a particular performance car is great / awful is nothing new; it has been going on as long as I can recall. Only the players change. Hopefully, they base their beliefs on their own personal experience, rather than comments from others or pictures from a magazine. Over the years, I have owned quite a few cars that I liked, ranging from some of the late 60's to 1970 American muscle cars (I view 1970 as the last year for the classic American muscle due to lower compression, lower HP starting in 1971), including Corvettes. While I still have a fondness for the older cars, I like this new Corvette, in some ways even more than I liked my 1963 vette, of which I was particularly fond. The new cars are more reliable, better made, quicker, faster, handle better, have a better ride; they are just better cars. And unlike some of the previous posters, I like the styling changes to the Corvette (although I think the back end still looks a little awkward) and probably will end up purchasing one. Also, the mention of Jaguar was interesting, as I now own a 1971 E-type. I have to agree with the perception that reliability isn’t a quality that Jaguar is known for, and while my E-type won’t match the performance of a great many of today’s performance cars, I still like it. Just goes to show that a lot of what goes into forming our likes and dislikes is highly subjective.
Now, for the discussion of engine displacement; I am also in the camp of the “there’s no replacement for displacement”. The truth is that in a street car, horse power is only part of the equation. While race cars (and some exotic street cars) generate a lot of HP at very high RPMs, this isn’t very practical for the street. It’s not often that we will be driving in the 7,000-9,000 RPM range in order to take advantage of that horse power. More important to a street car is to have the power available at a lower RPM and to have gobs of torque… and that’s where displacement comes in. That is what gives you the “push you back in the seat exhilaration” when you nail the throttle. Most of us (the sane ones anyway) are not going to be in a position very often to hit 180+ MPH, but we can get that acceleration rush from a car with a lot of low-end torque.
In any case, I thought that this was a very interesting discussion, thanks everyone.

Oh I know a car that gets roughly 400hp/400tourque thats under 70k USD!!!!!!!!! The Ford F6 Typhoon. Its Australian though. Oh and this car gets its max rated HP/Torque from 1500- 4500 rpm. Thats 3k rpm to have that power and fun....

I respect the Vette. I am mainly a ford guy but the Vette proves itself a very versitile opponent. It can normally take the Mustang, Viper and even most porches without a second guess. And japanese sports cars..... if you got stock to stock, there is not one japanese "sports" car that can even keep up w/American sports cars. Not even a stock Skyline. Now when you put about 20-30k worth or mods/upgrades then yea it could take the Vette. But put the same mods/upgrades, say a twin turbo, and you can have the equivalent to a Lingenfelter 427TT Vette that will smoke even a lambo.

But yea most european sports cars are not even close to 70k. They are 100k+ easily. Same w/ japanese. A Skyline is like about 70k to import and to get even close to that amount of power, another 20-30k.

Teldar:

"Looking around a few different sites last night, I found the config of the LS2 and found some information that the LS3 is (basically) (structurally and mechanically) the same as the LS2. The LS2 has 3 valves per cylinder. Now, while I don't KNOW that the LS3 has 3 valves per cylinder, the fact that I couldn't find anything on the apporx 10 sites I looked at that said there were any significant changes to the LS2 to make it the LS3, I think it's pretty safe to say that it is a 3 valve per cylinder engine."

The LS2 does NOT have 3 valves per cylinder.

one thing that everyone is forgetting is the actual targeted audience for the vettes: old men. i completely disagree with low-end torque being the end-all-be-all, and when you compare the handling of even the newest, most expensive vette to a long list of foreign cars, the vette will not handle as well, it's that simple. but the thing is, the averge american who buys a vette doesn't care about this stuff, they want a daily cruiser that gets decent gas mileage and can theoretically whoop almost every car on the (american) road. i say theoretically because the old men who buy the vettes dont actually race.

there are those who do, but i am talking about the targeted audience. hell, around here, i couldn't tell you how many vettes i fly by on the highway, or worse off, from a red light, and i drive a solara!! most people who buy vettes want status symbols, and just the way it is.

but seriously, the size thing... there's a reason they make convertables, and its not a cool factor. i'd love to see a race between a brand new 'vette and the soon to be released nissan gtr, especially a race with some turns and corners ;-)

"Niz:
More power but it's still butt-ugly compared to most euro and jap sports cars. And wow that interior color is tasteless beyond hope."

I second that, the Vette looks like a chinese Ferarri knock-off ... BTW GM everyone else is using OHC and have for like 15 years even Ford.

GM went with the 6.2L on the Vette because a tuned Pontiac GTO could own it.

The new Skyline will be AWD turbo and eat Shelbys and Vettes for lunch so comparing Jap/US is a mute point.

Teldar

Just to be clear the LS2 does NOT have 3 valves per cylinder. No overhead valve engine in the Corvette has ever had more than 16 valves. It was juat a rumor that GM was going to make a 3 valve head for the Vette several years ago. They determined that it was to much trouble. Most of you guys on here dont have a clue about cars are you would have picked up on this.

Wow, it's ugly. The color is what makes it look like a pile of puke in my opinion. I'll take a Shelby KR500 instead. Might as well have a car that has balls and look like it does than, yeah basically a Chineese effort at a Ferrari with a 6.2L engine. Chevys are crap. And no I don't need some ass ranting about Ford Contours and crap like that either.

Rob

I wouldn't say that I don't know anything at all about cars. I probably know quite a bit.

However, I did find where I was misinformed. One of the sites I read said "Valves per cylinder Two 2.00" Intake and 1.55" Exhaust" instead of "Valves per cylinder Two, 2.00" Intake and 1.55" Exhaust"

All I can say is that two valves per cylinder is a perfect reason for why they need larger engine to get that horsepower. You'd need serious turbo to get anwhere near the horsepower of a 4 vavle per cylinder engine.

You can exlain to me if you think I'm wrong about more vavles and OHV and OHC making more horsepower per liter with worse low end torque than a push rod engine, but you're going to have to work at it.

Teldar

"i couldn't tell you how many vettes i fly by on the highway, or worse off, from a red light, and i drive a solara!!"

First off, road racing is dangerous and illeagal. Despite what you may think, any vette from C4 on will smoke your solara in any performance catagory. Vette owners (myself included) just feel no need to engage with some punk who wants to make a point. You must have wanted to engage them, for some reason. I think it's more of a deeper rooted issue like jealosy. I'd suggest a good therapist to work out your anger issues.
Take it to the Track.

I'm sick of this DOHC/small displacement vs. Pushrod/Big displacement argument. Fact is, the LS3 gets more horsepower, better torque and better fuel economy than virtually every engine out there. Big displacement is the direction that GM chose, for several good reasons:

Torque, as mentioned before in several posts, the torque curves are flat and produce gobs of low end power.

Weight, the weight of a large displacement engine is signifigantly lower than a DOHC setup.

Height, the engine itself is rather shallow, compared to DOHC designs, which allow it to be packaged in the low hood-line of the corvette. Exotics, typically have midengine designs that allow a taller engine.

Simplicity, the GM Small block, and LS1+'s have been one of the most reliable engines for decades.

Fuel Economy, the vette gets better fuel economy than many 200hp cars. Cruising on the highway at 70mph yeilds over 30mpg. An Altima struggles to reach that since its spinning high RPM to get to that speed.

Consolidation, 6.2L will become the standard block for many upcoming GM vehicules. The extra displacement, and other features, were added to facilitate "Displacemnt on Demand" to improve fuel economy.

Now on to styling, that is subjective, but I love the look of the Vette. No other car short of a Ferrari looks as good. Thats my opinion, but remember, there are people who bought scion xB's and pontiac asteks, so, taste is very subjective.

The vette is a great all around performer. NO other car at this price range will equal it in all performance catagories. Its straitline performance is unmatched. It's track times are impressive. In its stock form, its not the best autocross car, but a shock/spring/swaybar upgrade will take care of that.

There are many competitors. Lotus makes a supurb track car. (i've owned one myself), but anyone who acutally wants to buy one, you'd better have another car to drive, because its NOT a daily driver. A little rain, and you can find yourself sideways on the street. Ride is excrutionatingly harse, and interior is non-existant. Anyone complaining about the vettes interior should just shut up!

EVO's and STI offer impressive performance, but at the end of the day, you still have a lancer, et al. Resale is pathetic, and reliability of those cars is horrendous.

The M3 is the closest competitor, and is very impressive. The M3's handling is great, but its pretty much maxed in power. They are completely different cars, and rarely compete in the marketplace however.

The Ford Mustang GT500 is a joke. With 100hp over the LS2 corvette, the vette smoked it in every performance catagory, including strait line performance. There is a difference between a true "sports car" and a car that can be made to go fast. I've seen people make 700hp in a honda civic (with 20K of mods), but on the track, it can't muster better than 13 sec 1/4 times. Pathetic.

Any modded car can be a competitor to a vette, but make those same mods to the vette and it will kill them any day. Add to the fact that the vette has great everyday manors and the decision becomes simple.

I own a 2004 C5, as my daily driver, a 2002 C5 modded with stroked engine H/C and supercharger, that is my track car, and a 2007 C6 Z06 (with supercharger) which is my weekender (show car). I've also got a 2001 TransAm that share daily duties. Traded the lotus in for the Z06 and it was a very good decision. Much better car overall, IMHO.

GM is also leading in quality right behind toyota. Anyone who thinks they make crap, because of the crap they made in the 80's needs to get a clue.

Now for the bad with vettes. Corvette Tax. Sucks, plain and simple. My 2001 TA has the same LS1 as my 2002/2004 C5's. but the same part can cost double! Smart shopping can help but sometimes your just plain screwed. Example, good aftermarket exhaust for a mustang, 400, for a TransAm/Camaro, 600, for a Corvette, 1200. That's the price you pay for the best sports car america churns out. But it could be worse.......I found out what Ferrari tax is!!!! Killed my purchse of a 360. And talk about poor quality of Ferrari's!

So, most of you spouting off about how bad the corvette is, have problably never set foot in one. You'll just drive your camary or accord, or minivan around wishing you had one (or a porshe/ferrari/lambo) and take every opportunity to bash them. You'll scream about poor fuel economy, yet stomp on the gas at every light, netting 15mpg, all while I get 25-33mpg. You'll scream how you can buy a used Mitsu Eclipse, and thow 10K in mods and it can now hang with a vette. Then you'll cry when your engine is shot in a year, and I just keep going. Sad really. Fact is, the vette (in stock form) is better than 99% of cars on the road. Factor in the price point, and there is no comparison. By why let facts get in the way on an internet comments section.

If you don't like the vette, don't buy it. I don't go on porshe articles and bash them. I'll be the first to admit that the vette is not for everyone, but why the hostility? And skip the debate about displacement. The LS3 is one of the best engines out there. Done.

That new vette is ungodly! Pushrods still rule the world of power. Nothing, including forced induction methods or OHC motors, can produce the sheer torque of a pushrod engine. Add to that the displacement of a large small block chevy engine and you'll be stuck in a tight place trying to produce those numbers. All with very reasonable gas mileage.

You people brag about how cool and cute and colorful imports are. Well, it's a little too late to be singing that tune, IMO. Our market has globalized too much to be stuck in this little war of imports. And i do mean LITTLE! Someone stated a 2L VW engine makes 200hp w/ a turbo. You've already bottle necked that motor by using it's strength up on boost. Mating 3 2L's to produce your alledged "600hp" motor isn't feasible. That's not a v8, it's a 6L V12. That motor wouldn't make ANY torque as it would be a top end engine. Bore along with compression are the ideal methods to producing torque, which results in more hp since it's a measurement of torque.

Ford is learning the hard way that pushrods are still dominant in the power world. Chrysler, albeit a Import company now, decided the only way to compete with the champ of power is to play on the same field. Thus, a OHV series of Hemi's. Ford is still working on their Hurricane motor, which is due around the release of the Camaro. Fast Mercedes? How about you try pushrods? And large displacement.

The reason the Vette engine isn't producing 600hp isn't because it's not capable. At the dimensions of a motor that large, and the roots of where it came from, any true gearhead would realize that harnessing over 500wHP on a SBC motor is entirely feasible. But where does that leave a compromise for efficency? It's aimed at the best of both worlds. Let's not forget the oldest GM trick in the book. Back in '00, the alledged "300" hp LS1 was putting down 270-285 at the rear WHEELS. That's about a ~350hp motor, far underrated. Same deal with this herd of hard hitters. You think it's a 425hp, then you put it on a dyno and make damn near that at the rear wheels.

A mild cam, head port, FAST intake, unrestricted exhaust, larger MAF and TB and a tune will likely yield you a true 550hp+ motor. All under a fraction of the cost of almost all of the Vette's competition. If there's anything wrong with that, it's the fact that I haven't managed to gather up enough money and buy one for myself!

http://www.arielmotor.co.uk/04/frames.htm

35-50k They are quicker...handle better...maybe not as great at a top end...better on any road course.

Less Horsepower...way faster

Haha, yea Skip - I'd love to have an Atom. Those suckers have a higher power to weight ratio than an Enzo Ferrari!

"Fuel Economy, the vette gets better fuel economy than many 200hp cars. Cruising on the highway at 70mph yeilds over 30mpg."

What the HELL are you smoking? Seriously - unless you have a variable-displacement engine, no 6+ liter V8 is going to get 30 mpg (ESPECIALLY an Americrap V8, since American companies are extra fuel-inefficient). The best EPA ratings (which are pretty much usually increased by 3-5 mpg) say 28 on the highway - and that's only if you have a 6 liter Vette with a 6-speed manual. Sure, you may be right that it gets more mpg than a Ferrari or an M5 (and damn well it should out do an M5 when that's a 4,000 lb SEDAN) - but that's a far cry from 30 mpg.

Also, the Solara guy wasn't saying his car was FASTER, he was commenting on all the morons who buy Vette's to look cool and then drive 10 mph or more UNDER the speed limit. I've been late for work dozens of times because some moron in a Vette was terrified of a 45 mph speed limit and insisted on doing 25-30 mph.

"Someone stated a 2L VW engine makes 200hp w/ a turbo. You've already bottle necked that motor by using it's strength up on boost."

That little engine has 207 lb/ft from 1,800 to 5,000 and 200 hp at 5,100 - that's an ungodly good torque curve. I'm fairly positive no American company has ever built a V8 with a torque curve that flat. It provides good acceleration and good gas-mileage. For an average car, it provides a fun ride that's plenty capable of passing anything and getting out of the way if necessary WHILE being economical.

"35-50k They are quicker...handle better...maybe not as great at a top end...better on any road course.

Less Horsepower...way faster"

You forgot to factor in the weight of the Truck and trailer you need to move that thing everywhere. Comparing street legal to pure track cars is just dumb.

"What the HELL are you smoking? Seriously - unless you have a variable-displacement engine, no 6+ liter V8 is going to get 30 mpg (ESPECIALLY an Americrap V8, since American companies are extra fuel-inefficient)."

EPA ratings are just that, a rating. They are intended to provide a controlled enviroment for testing so that consumers can compare cars. But the EPA ratings DO NOT equate to real world driving. So much so, they recently changed their methodology, while still far from perfect, it is better. So many people take these ratings as absolute numbers. They think their Prius is going to get great numbers and then stomp on it a every light. Not going to happen.

Yes, I can get WAY over 30mpg, on the highway. In trafic, its way less. On a recent 300mile trip, I averaged 33mpg. Don't believe me? Head over to a corvette forum and ask the question. I think you'll get a unanimous response. At highway speeds, the drag on a car is incredible. Cars with a better Cd (Coefficient of Drag) get better milage than a similar wieght un-aerodymanic car.
At 70mph, I'm turning about 1500rpm. What are you spinning at that speed?

"...he was commenting on all the morons who buy Vette's to look cool and then drive 10 mph or more UNDER the speed limit."

Can't comment on someone else's driving, but (by my own experience) that's pretty much in the minority. There are rude drivers in every type of car, domestic and imports. No, the problem is if a camary does that, you forget it, but when a corvette owner does something dumb, all vette owners are shallow image concious idiots. You need to grow up and stop stereotyping. I hope you don't do the same thing with ethnic groups.

"I've been late for work dozens of times because some moron in a Vette was terrified of a 45 mph speed limit and insisted on doing 25-30 mph."

The difference on a 1mile stretch is 4minutes. Don't tell me you were behind someone for more than 1mile? I feel bad for you that your underpowered car couldn't pass someone in front of you going 25mph for a whole mile. Does 4 minutes really make you late?
Besides, you should be planning to get to work early. Then you might get a raise, a promotion and have enough money to buy one of these some day. Maybe then you wouldn't be so angry.
:)

"No, the problem is if a camary does that, you forget it, but when a corvette owner does something dumb, all vette owners are shallow image concious idiots."

No, the point is that there are morons who buy a high powered car to look cool and then are terrified to drive it. I've seen people in Saleen S285's doing the same thing and it annoys me then too. No one ever said anything about "all vette owners" -- only you.''

"Don't tell me you were behind someone for more than 1mile? I feel bad for you that your underpowered car couldn't pass someone in front of you going 25mph for a whole mile. Does 4 minutes really make you late?"

Try about 5 miles on a very high traffic 2 lane road (so passing is only possible late at night when few people are on the road). Lets see - 5 times 4 is 20. I generally give about 10-15 minutes extra travel time to get to work beyond the average. I have better things to do than waste my time leaving an additional 20 minutes early just because the typical American can't figure out that if you push on the gas pedal, the car goes FORWARD.

Also, no matter how much money I have, I'll never buy a Vette (unless it's a classic one from the 50's-70's). An M3 runs the same price and is a much classier car, looks a lot better, and is much more cutting edge.

I'm not going to go into mpg, because there is no way for either of us to PROVE what we actually get, so it's a waste of time. However, I find your claims of 30 or more mpg to be highly unlikely. I'll have to find someone with a Vette and try it out.

"Despite what you may think, any vette from C4 on will smoke your solara in any performance catagory"

you might want to open your eyes next time you read a post. i never said i could smoke a vette, i'm not an idiot. my point was that most vette owners drive slower than anything else on the road. now tell me, whats the point in buying a car THAT fast if not to have some fun? pulling away from a red light on a highway idling just doesnt seem like much fun to me, especially if i were driving a vette or equivillantly fast car.

read next time before you comment ;-)

HAHAHAHA

FACTS ARE:

1. A DOHC IS MORE EFFICIENT AND CREATES MORE POWER WHATEVER THE POWER BAND .. PUSHRODS ARE NOT MAGICAL THEY ARE A HIGH FRICTION, HIGHLY DEFLECTIVE WAY TO DRIVE TWO VALVES LET ALONE FOUR OR FIVE.

2. MY 300HP/330FT-PD 1991 Q45 THAT WEIGHS 4300 POUNDS GETS 30 MPG WITH A TAILWIND GOING DOWN HILL ON THE INTERSTATE BEHIND A SEMI - WOOPEEE!

LIKE I SAID B4 VETTE=CHINESE FERRARI KNOCKOFF, AVERAGE AMERICAN CRAP JOB. OH YEA AND THE 15K COBALTS RULE HAHAHA HAHAHA GM IS F'D

AND WHOEVER SAID YOU CAN GET A NEW VETTE FOR $70K HAS NEVER BEEN TO THE DEALERSHIP

DO YOUR SELF A FAVOR AND GET A REAL SPORTS CAR LIKE THE 2008 NISSAN SKYLINE GT-R 480HP, TURBO, AWD, LUXURIOUS H.Q. INTERIOR, GREAT STYLING, BETTER WARRANTY, BETTER GAS MILEAGE, AND THE SAME OR CHEAPER THAN A BASE VETTE.

To Remy LeBeau;
"No one ever said anything about "all vette owners" -- only you.''

may I quote from your previous post -

"...he was commenting on all the morons who buy Vette's to look cool and then drive 10 mph or more UNDER the speed limit."

Seems you included "all" in your original statement.

"Try about 5 miles on a very high traffic 2 lane road..."

Traffic sucks, plain and simple. I've been stuck in traffic too. I, however, reject your assertation that it is high power cars that only go slow. And you brought this argument up in the context of talking about "slow" vettes. If you actually ran statistics on your moring commute, I'd be willing to bet that its more underpowered cars that hold you up, than high power cars. It's just that you notice the high powered cars more. Anyone can be an idiot behind the wheel.

"An M3 runs the same price and is a much classier car, looks a lot better, and is much more cutting edge."

Great, an M3 is a nice car. If you like it more, buy it. I'm not trying to sway anyone here. I'm just trying to point out misconceptions and inaccuracies in peoples so called "facts". I have several friends with M3's and one who has bought a 335i. Personally, I hate the styling, too sedan like. I like cars with a low profile wedge shape. That's just me though. But to get techincal, the M3 is a touring coupe, the vette is a sports car. they are in a different class, and hence have different target markets. The M3 is a better daily driver. Two seats in the vette also limit its usability. But for all out performance feel, nothing compares to the vette in their price range.

"I'm not going to go into mpg, because there is no way for either of us to PROVE what we actually get, so it's a waste of time."

As I said before, go to a corvette forum, and do a search on gas milage. I think the results will surprise you. There is a preconceived notion that these just suck gas and are terrible. People think that just because it's a big engine, its bad, and anything with a small engine is good. That is just not true. Fact is, the vette gets respectable milage, and better than any SUV on the road.

To ad:
"read next time before you comment"

Perhaps make an informed comment before you spew garbage. I don't know why you wanted to single out vette owners, but I'm sure you'll find that there are bad drivers in every make of car out there.

"whats the point in buying a car THAT fast if not to have some fun?"

Trust me, I have plenty of fun ;)
But there's no need to smoke the tires at every light and show off. I think you'll find most vette owners more knowedgeable about their cars than typical car owners, and henceforth, more curtious on the road.

To the obvious troll:
You can purchase a new vette at a dealer in the 40K range, not 70K.
Skyline? Ah, yeah......It's called the Lexus G35. No where near 480hp. Get a life.

I said "all the morons who buy Vette's to look cool and then drive 10 mph or more UNDER the speed limit" - not "all vette owners". Reading comprehension is a fantastic thing.

Also, I never said slow drivers only own fast cars - just that it's exponentially more annoying for someone in a car capable of more than 3 times the speed limit to not do the speed limit. Someone in a Honda honestly might be afraid that their car will rattle apart if they go that fast (not true, but hey it's possible since they are econo-cars, not sports cars), whereas someone with a car that can go as fast as a Vette is well aware that nothing bad will come from doing the speed limit.

"Skyline? Ah, yeah......It's called the Lexus G35. No where near 480hp. Get a life."

what??!

a skyline is an Infiniti, not Lexus. infiniti/nissan, lexus/toyota... nice for someone who "knows about cars" (referring to your post about most corvette owners knowing about cars.....). anyway, the NEW skylines are in fact infiniti g35's, but what the true skylines... theres no point in explaining, google R34. sure it might not pump out 5,000 HP, and the engine might only have 2.6L displacement, but only an idiot thinks horsepower makes a car. check out the R34's steering, awd, traction, braking systems, and overall aerodynamics.

the NEW "skyline" (technically not a skyline anymore since it's a new platform entirely), the R36 that i referred to at first, will be priced near the Z06 range. sure, it won't push 505hp, but again, horsepower is only a part of what makes a sports car.

back to the dig on "MOST" corvette owners not driving sporty, I stand by that; at least, around where i live. i passed two more on the road driven by white men in their 50's or 60's going 8 and 10 miles under the speed limit, and definately in automatics (NOT a diss! just pointing out that these two apparently weren't all about being one with their sports car). the only two 'vettes around here that i've EVER seen having fun; one was an attractive 20-something girl playing with my friend in his jeep (she knew how to push a gas pedal), the other was a REALLY beautiful classic Vette who my friends and I couldnt stop admiring. the owner decided to gun it a bit on the highway to show us its acceleration.

this is in the span of 6 years living in the same city, so let's not say that "I think you'll find most vette owners more knowedgeable about their cars than typical car owners, and henceforth, more curtious on the road," when around here, the truth is they just don't WANT to drive their cars fast, or sporty, or fun... besides, curtious is the last word i would call anyone in a vette around here. having one whip in front of you on the highway going 45 while youre at 65 is not what i would consider nice.

STFU!!!

whats wrong with all you trailer trash?! None of you really know what you're talking about, so just let each ignoramus slobber over whatever mechanical junk heap they like... geeze, you sound like a bunch of half drunk high-school drop outs.

Guys...
I have owned a 1986, 2004 and 2006 C6 Convert., -- I traded the C6 in on the BMW M6, 0-60 times are the same as the Corvette C6. Yes the BMW is 5.0litre V10 with all that horsepower and a redline over 8,000 RPM's which makes driving the 7 speed a lot of fun, but the clunky shifting SMG makes daily driving a chore.

I just ordered the 2008 Corvette, and will be taking it with the exhaust package, the smooth shifting manner of the Corvette is truely more comfortable on long drives as well as the around town drives, and I am 6'2" and 300 lbs, and although it isn't as spacious as some of my cars, it is substantially better than cars like the Viper, the CLS and it is comparable to the M6, and actually has a better seating position than my 750Li.

I will be trading my M6 in, actually looking forward to it, by the way on average I get between 6 & 9 miles per gallon, 11 if I am all Highway, which is terrible no matter where you live, how much money you have or how fast you can go, when you can get (and honestly) about 22 MPG is about what my Vette would get, and have almost equal performance, lots of looks and in reality -- very few people know the difference between an M6 and a 650 but everyone can pick out a Corvette as the legend.

I have to say that American cars have usually had some pretty bad volumetric efficiency. Sad but true. Don't get me wrong guys and girls, I <3 a V8, but does it not bother you that they still* make OHV motors? I mean they are durable (Briggs & Stratton) they make good torque, but with that tech you hit a brick wall with numbers because of inadequate head flow.

Generally European cars are quiet and nice around town. Almost all of their 4 cylinder turbo motors use small turbos for quick spool and a pretty broad torque curve. They do this for a reason, driveability which is of course, nice. They do cut their hp numbers in the process. Their turbo's usually* always run out of volume at about 5600+ revs.

Japanese motors aren't all too shabby either, the F20C from the honda s2000 makes around* 240 hp, thats all of 2.0 liters(coke anyone). It has no torque but uses its ridiculous gear ratios to get moving. Another good example would be the 2JZ-GTE the stock bottom end of that 3.0 liter motor is good to about* 800 hp. That's pretty cool stuff.

What I'm getting at is that it's all relative. The how, why, and from what make a car what it is. Yes, the vette is legendary, but so is the GT40, 911, and all other sorts of vehicles. It's all matter of facts that is biased by opinion and necessity. There is no such thing as a car that is better than another, generally. Yes, it can be better in some aspects but opinion comes back to bite you in the arse.

P.S.
Also, when making comparisons try to actually compare similar engine styles aka turbo vs. turbo and not dohc vs. ohv. The variable of power adders and head styles, is just a bias the comparison of HP and Ft./Lbs.(NM) per In³. or cc and power/weight ratios.

i wonder if the LS3 is a small block like the LS2, but i think the upgrade is nice 36 more hp then the LS2, but the LS7 big block was nice .505 faster the viper, but LS series is always nice power from fatory to the after market,but then yet again chevy made the LSX with reggie jackson (baseball player) that was based off the LS7 block. the reason i wonder why the LS3 is a small block b/c iam a big fan of all the chevy it always give these dodge boy a run for it's money

"EVO's and STI offer impressive performance, but at the end of the day, you still have a lancer, et al. Resale is pathetic, and reliability of those cars is horrendous."

And at the end of the day you have a Vette, what's your point?

Reliability is horrendous, is it? That's funny, because I'm fairly certain Subaru kicks Chevy's ass when it comes to making reliable cars, STI included. As for the Mitsubishi, well, I'm not too fond of the company, so they're on their own. That said, the Evo is a point-to-point monster.

What's this magical "chick factor" I keep hearing about regarding Vettes? They're a dime a dozen, and they certainly don't turn heads. Sexy? Give me a break.

What's with the fascination with 1000hp TT Vettes? There are 1000hp Evos running around with a third of the displacement. Don't claim "Daily driver blah blah blah", people don't buy $140,000 cars to putt around in. If you want to fine, I'll take a 600hp STI for the track, an M3 for the street, and a GTI for hopping down to the store for my $140k, thanks. No, 600hp STIs do not spontaneously explode, thank you very much.

Vettes are quick, to be sure, but they're not even close to the be-all end-all of cars. Based on some of the comments I've read you people (certainly not everyone, but some of you) are as bad as the Fast and Furious teens foaming at the mouth over delusions of Skyline grandeur.

Interesting to see all the "Flaws in logic" that people use when posting on this board. There are a few people who actually know what they are talking about. Then the rest are morons just spouting opinions (The vette looks ugly, I prefer a Mustang, etc) which holds no value other than it is just an opinion, or people who don't know jack about cars (The extent of the knowledge is from the Fast and Furious Movies). If you like the driving dynamics of a front drive "riced out civic" good for you. One day, you'll have an opportunity to drive a rear or all wheel drive car and realize what you have missed out.

A 1000 HP / 150ft-lb civic was probably an overzealous example, but to get that spec, a car engine would have to run at 35000 RPM's. Good luck with that :)

Just remember, the "torque" is a unit of energy and the Horsepower is just a function of how much torque the engine delivers at a given rate (RPM).

So for all you morons who don't know what you are talking about, do a little research and math BEFORE you spout out a bunch of crap and pollute the internet with your nonsense.

Whats this I hear about low end torque? Last time I checked, American cars are making torque in the 4000 rpm range, where as BMW, Honda and the ilk all make it closer to 2000 rpm.

Styling is much like beauty and that has always been in the eye of the beholder. the true test will be reading consumer reports 8 years after the production dates and finding that this car might be good, although i seriously doubt this car will even last 7 years of daily driving, america should stick to creative / service related jobs and stop trying to prove they have any sort of manufacturing capabilit.... waist of time , go take a class in community college and consult for a living , let the mongolians do the manufacturing you do the thinking and let your kids do the thinking in the future too.... work smarter not harder !

Honestly, I'd never buy a new car like this anyways. (Nevermind that I dont have the money for it.) I'd wait about 3 years. We're talking 4k for driving it off the Lot, and 2k a year. Turns 45k into 35k. Which is much more affordable.

"The true test will be reading consumer reports 8 years after the production dates and finding that this car might be good, although i seriously doubt this car will even last 7 years of daily driving"

Hmm. Tell that to my friends '86 Vette at an aged 180k miles.
Tell that too his fathers 96 Vette whith 90k.

"Corvettes tend to emphasize simplicity over technical complexity. Where nearly all competing marques rely on smaller displacement, more complex and faster-revving engines, the Corvette uses a simpler overhead valve (OHV) design coupled with a larger displacement to make up for the lower rev limit pushrods impose. The result is usually less expensive to manufacture and maintain. Another example of this philosophy is the continued use of transverse leaf springs in the suspension. This has fueled the aforementioned "lack of refinement" argument, although the Corvette's units differ substantially from traditional leaf springs, being made of a composite material and arranged in such a way as to act as stabilizer bars."

low rev power babyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

everyone is just jealous of my Ford Exploder XLT with 5.0L v8. You know you wish you had one. Yeah im sporting the AWD.. i never slip off the line. ~230hp depending on the temperature. I may only get like 18mpg but it will smoke all you guys' vettes, camaros, rice burners, fancy dance exodics, ok.. the guy with the solara would kick my butt... but hey.. thats a dream car...

ok enough joking.. its all back and forth about whose cars is better.. but seriously, its all down to opinion. Sure the vette is fast.. so is a 20k riced out jap inport, so is the m3.. they are all fast.. you can mod out cars all day. Wheather a car be faster than another involves a lot of things that you have to count. Horse Power, torque, P to W ratio. and handling please.. every car has a steering wheel and turns.. and if your taking a corner at 150+mph your just an idiot. note: if you want track performance sure.. there are suspention and tires and sway bars that help keep you planted around corner on the tracks.

every sports car has pros and cons. Reliablity is nothing, you can have a vette for 200k miles and never break down.. or it can break down the day you take it off the lot. same goes for every car.

Fuel economy: yes, the vette has great fuel economy you non believers, look it up, so does a a hybrid..... its the way the engine is; low end torque. But seriously.. if i could afford a vette.. im pretty sure i wouldn't be bothered by fuel economy and id be gunning it around town.. besides.. im wont buy a sports car for the fuel economy

Yeah old people buy vettes, you know why, cuz they can afford it. you dont see old geezers driving souped up '98 civics? A lot of people who want sports cars cant afford it till later in their lives. And yeah they drive slow. They dont want to wreck the car they have been earning to get for 30+ years.. i would drive slow too.. oh but give me a vette now at age 20, hell yeah ill drive it 80 in a 45!

If i had to take a side i would go for the vette.. i love the looks of them.. i love muscle.. the the vette is an icon. not saying if you hand me a m3 i'd not take it.. or hand me a gtr, id be glad to take that off yours hands too.. (ok ill take the gtr, sell it and buy a vette) but thats not the point.. its still a fast car (with potential)

if you have the money and you want a fararri.. go buy a damn fararri.. you'll go fast in it.. i promise. but dont be coming on here saying car X is better than car Y. Just remember, that is always a faster car than yours out there somewhere.

all i gotta say is f*** you niz and all who look down on the corvette

all i gotta say is fuck you niz and all who look down on the corvette

all i gotta say is fuck you niz and all who look down on the corvette

all i gotta say is fuck you niz and all who look down on the corvette

LOL.... gg screw niz.... ur very smart, what can I say.... pffff
I can't say anything pro or against.The fact is, the mpg isn't very good on an OHV engine due to very crappy valve control on higher rpm.Yes the engine is lighter, yes it's cheaper to maintain BUT they could have made the engine SOHC wich is almost as good as DOHC engine, and is cheaper to mantain.
All the peoples against the dohc engines must think about this.In NASCAR, INDY, Formula 1 you will not see any OHV engine.WHY?Because with an dohc engine you can drain every bit of HP from an engine.
Take a look on this site:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/240975/f1_engine_song/

This is the ultimate engineering.The power to control an engine with electronic throttle and it sounds perfect.The valves timing are perfect.
Also notice that the fuel economy is very good.What can you say about import cars?BAD? I don't think so.What about an EVO 8 with 450hp that beats the crap out of an Murcielago on the Top Gear show on a track.The engine is prepaired by Cosworth.We have the technology, why not use it?Why if we made computers that are stand alone thinking, we are still trying to put an TRACTOR PULLING engine on a light car and still name it Racing or Exotic car.
Ariel atom is a fine engineering piece.So the Lotus Elise or Exige.So it's Koenigsegg CCX with it's 4.8L engine and it's 800BHP and 381kmh with 3.1s 0-60mph.Yes it costs more BUT it's a HUGE BUT.Search on google to see what fuel usage it has a Porsche Cayman or a Nissan Skyline GTR with it's RB26 6inline engine.If i'm not mistaking it's about 9L/100km, that means 2galons(~3.2l/galon) on 60miles on the Porsche and 17L/100km on the Z-TUNE Nissan Skyline with 500bhp.
these are the specs for an ~380 skiline from a forum
about 16 mpg fast driving
about 27 mpg mixed (motorway & town)
about 30 mpg 75mph on motorway.
The Z-TUNE R34 now cranks out a more respectable 500 hp at 6,800 rpm and 398 pound-feet at 5,200 rpm.wata said that he could easily tweak the car to a maximum of around 630 hp, but then they'd have to worry about emissions regulations. Torque comes on strong from 2,000 rpm, explodes from 3,500-4,200 rpm and stays on tap all the way to 7,000 rpm.
It isn't about the vette being a bad car.It's cute as a sport car.Sounds great with the 4 exhaust kit.Agressive look and i would prefer it with no time thinking instead of Viper Truck.But if you think about European gas prices, you would think twice about the displacement and you will chose an electronic gadget car with small engine, high peak rpm and head for the open roads.We don't have large 4 ways roads large enough to fit 4 big trucks on the lanes or 4 trans-am and a girl to give them start blink.We have twistie roads, in some places with bumps.WTF man...we don't want a car to suck all our money on gas and to leave us bare naked coz we sold everything to pay the gas bill.Yeah RWD is great...but only if you can hold the power.If not.... we will meet on other places not earth.I want to see some Prodrive P2 stylish traction control, some SRS, some ESP, some limited slip differential, some launch control on it with paddels shifting gears.And only after that I will consider treating as an exotic sport (racing some one said) car.

LOL.... gg screw niz.... ur very smart, what can I say.... pffff
I can't say anything pro or against.The fact is, the mpg isn't very good on an OHV engine due to very crappy valve control on higher rpm.Yes the engine is lighter, yes it's cheaper to maintain BUT they could have made the engine SOHC wich is almost as good as DOHC engine, and is cheaper to mantain.
All the peoples against the dohc engines must think about this.In NASCAR, INDY, Formula 1 you will not see any OHV engine.WHY?Because with an dohc engine you can drain every bit of HP from an engine.
Take a look on this site:
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/240975/f1_engine_song/

This is the ultimate engineering.The power to control an engine with electronic throttle and it sounds perfect.The valves timing are perfect.
Also notice that the fuel economy is very good.What can you say about import cars?BAD? I don't think so.What about an EVO 8 with 450hp that beats the crap out of an Murcielago on the Top Gear show on a track.The engine is prepaired by Cosworth.We have the technology, why not use it?Why if we made computers that are stand alone thinking, we are still trying to put an TRACTOR PULLING engine on a light car and still name it Racing or Exotic car.
Ariel atom is a fine engineering piece.So the Lotus Elise or Exige.So it's Koenigsegg CCX with it's 4.8L engine and it's 800BHP and 381kmh with 3.1s 0-60mph.Yes it costs more BUT it's a HUGE BUT.Search on google to see what fuel usage it has a Porsche Cayman or a Nissan Skyline GTR with it's RB26 6inline engine.If i'm not mistaking it's about 9L/100km, that means 2galons(~3.2l/galon) on 60miles on the Porsche and 17L/100km on the Z-TUNE Nissan Skyline with 500bhp.
these are the specs for an ~380 skiline from a forum
about 16 mpg fast driving
about 27 mpg mixed (motorway & town)
about 30 mpg 75mph on motorway.
The Z-TUNE R34 now cranks out a more respectable 500 hp at 6,800 rpm and 398 pound-feet at 5,200 rpm.wata said that he could easily tweak the car to a maximum of around 630 hp, but then they'd have to worry about emissions regulations. Torque comes on strong from 2,000 rpm, explodes from 3,500-4,200 rpm and stays on tap all the way to 7,000 rpm.
It isn't about the vette being a bad car.It's cute as a sport car.Sounds great with the 4 exhaust kit.Agressive look and i would prefer it with no time thinking instead of Viper Truck.But if you think about European gas prices, you would think twice about the displacement and you will chose an electronic gadget car with small engine, high peak rpm and head for the open roads.We don't have large 4 ways roads large enough to fit 4 big trucks on the lanes or 4 trans-am and a girl to give them start blink.We have twistie roads, in some places with bumps.WTF man...we don't want a car to suck all our money on gas and to leave us bare naked coz we sold everything to pay the gas bill.Yeah RWD is great...but only if you can hold the power.If not.... we will meet on other places not earth.I want to see some Prodrive P2 stylish traction control, some SRS, some ESP, some limited slip differential, some launch control on it with paddels shifting gears.And only after that I will consider treating as an exotic sport (racing some one said) car.

Some people that claim to know about cars need to find out whats the difference between a Pushrod engine and a OHC engine.

The GM V8 engines are the best highpower engines in the World.

Blue Devil Vette is gona be FTW!! omg its will rip that German @$$!

on a side note.... heres a crazy idea... ya know how the TBSS had the new vette engine(LS2)/brakes back in 05? how about redesigning the TBSS again with the upgraded Vette Engine and stronger suspention/brakes. LMAO a TBSS with a LS3!! Maybe it would finally beat the the SRT8 from the factory.

Concerning upgrading a Camshaft in a big V8 to high performane... how much does that cost? and what else would need upgrading? Transmission almost for sure?

" Remy LeBeau:

This would be noteworthy if they did it WITHOUT increasing the engine displacement. Seriously, at the rate they're going with it by the time the 2015 Vette comes out it'll have to be a whole foot longer just for the engine! European and Japanese companies can get that same power from an engine in the mid-to-high 4 liter range or low 5 liter range - why can't American companies figure it out?"

I guess your just another "America Obsessed" type that needs to bash everything american. And you are also a typical" Von Braun of Cars" wannabe. The V8 Pushrod design is very different from OHC designs. Go do some research on the subject and stop using "cliches" for a change. Engine displacement giver you the volumetric amount of air-fuel mixture that the cyclinders can take, it doesnt give you NOTHING else. Go check for yourself wannabe boy.

I agree that American cars with big V8 engines dont produce alot of power for their size, but surely there is more to it then just max power. If i was buying a Vette, i want the big V8 experience; the rumble and unforgetable noise. I would turn my nose up at a Vette with a little 2.0 litre engine in, even if it was knocking out 400hp. "Lazy" American V8 engines are a tradition, and a very popular one at that. The engine in the Vette is still based on a design around 50 years old...which says alot for the robust nature of this engine. My only real point against it, is the lack of modern suspension, leaf springs are a bit old world.

A word on the styling. Yep it doesnt look great in some pics, especially in that orange colour. It does look damn nice in black though. Still looks alot better then a BMW 5 series.

I agree that American cars with big V8 engines dont produce alot of power for their size, but surely there is more to it then just max power. If i was buying a Vette, i want the big V8 experience; the rumble and unforgetable noise. I would turn my nose up at a Vette with a little 2.0 litre engine in, even if it was knocking out 400hp. "Lazy" American V8 engines are a tradition, and a very popular one at that. The engine in the Vette is still based on a design around 50 years old...which says alot for the robust nature of this engine. My only real point against it, is the lack of modern suspension, leaf springs are a bit old world.

A word on the styling. Yep it doesnt look great in some pics, especially in that orange colour. It does look damn nice in black though. Still looks alot better then a BMW 5 series.

Loved the comments very passionate, also believe beauty in the eye of the beholder. that is why there is different manufacturer's.

nice car